Ellington

As a vote to approve a controversial placement of a new civil rights museum looms, a commission member is saying that extra taxpayer costs of locating it in a planned development zone near Tougaloo College are being dramatically downplayed by supporters of that plan. "(Consultants) say the road wll be completed by April 8. That's impossible. ...The road is not going to be able to begin construction until the railroad is raised, and I believe there's some funding missing for the railroad at the current time," Civil Rights Commission member Susan Lunardini told the Jackson City Council Thursday.

Any road would have to go under the rail, because the train occasionally parks on the track, but raising an active railroad can't be done on the cheap, according to the cost of similar projects, which can easily cost more than $10 million. The train can't stop while workers build up the gravel, and the rail is far enough afield of a surrogate line to prove impossible to reroute. The money purse funding the construction—be it the state or the federal government—could end up having to build a temporary diversion until the construction is complete. Lunardini estimates the costs of raising the railroad near Tougaloo to be upward of $4 million, which does not include the additional $1 million she estimates would be required to build a 1,350-foot boulevard extending from the main road to the proposed museum.

LeRoy Walker, who is on the Commission's Finance Committee, said both state and federal governments would be pitching in to pay for the project, which to date has unfolded largely behind closed doors.

"(U.S. Rep.) Bennie Thompson could probably tell you more about that. He's the one who helped get that inducement to get the railroad track raised as well as the widening of the County Line Road. We're very proud of that," Walker said. "The whole thing, road and railroad, will add a whole lot of value to that area up there."

The LaPaglia plan foresees the rebuilt access road—now devoid of its train problem—opening the way for an explosion of new suburbs around Tougaloo, eventually leading near the border of the Highland Colony Parkway, which city leaders fault as head-hunting and stealing away business from downtown Jackson.

The Jackson City Council is furthering its case for locating the proposed National Civil Rights Museum downtown by committing to renovating the area around the desired Mill Street location. Four members of the council Thursday agreed upon a resolution to rehabilitate Mill Street between Capitol and Monument Streets, which includes installing new sewage and water lines, as well as new streetlights and sidewalks.

The council is working furiously to dress up the downtown location after the LaPaglia report cited a lack of space, urban blight and an environment "perceived as threatening by the general public," which the general public won't have reason to venture into. It also criticized the water and sewer system as in need of upgrades.

The consulting firm said the Tougaloo site, in contrast, offers a wooded area with no demolition requirements, adequate space and a location near the historic Woodworth Chapel.

Advocates pushing to place the site in Jackson were eager to pick apart LaPaglia & Associates' reasoning, saying the consultants did not acknowledge $750 million in new construction going on around the downtown site, and wide community support—even as the added Tougaloo infrastructure costs were downplayed.

"I'm a card-carrying new urbanist. I believe in walkability and sustainability. Downtown Jackson will have between 15,000 and 25,000 people residing in the immediate area by the time this museum is built," said Lunardini, who referred to Mississippi Development Authority data predicting an influx of new residents in the blast of emerging downtown condominiums. "When you remove the museum from the downtown area, or outside the city...you will not have any impulse visiting. You will have strict visiting in a cab or automobile."

Local rap artist and activist Kamikaze, who heavily favors placing the museum in the downtown area, said he was frustrated by the lack of public oversight in the commission's vote, which could cost taxpayers millions of dollars in unmentioned costs.

"First of all, if the money comes from the federal government and the state, the Legislature will have to revisit funding this thing just about every year as new costs come along. Second of all, this whole process is more than slightly flawed. ... As you dig a little deeper you'll see that there was a lot of back-room dealing going on to get this project over to Tougaloo," Kamikaze said. "They expected to be able to walk into the Woolfolk Building next Tuesday, on March 11, when everybody's going to have their attention turned to the primary, so they could slip in and do this vote under the cloak of secrecy. If you try to tell me anything else, you're insulting my intelligence."

Kamikaze maintains that commission members favorable to Tougaloo, many graduates or college board members like Walker and Tougaloo President Beverly Wade Hogan—even Rep. Thompson is a Tougaloo graduate—slanted LaPaglia & Associates' recommendation toward the college. LaPaglia & Associates President Pete LaPaglia said commission members had no communication with the consulting firm. Commission Co-Chairman Reuban Anderson, also a Tougaloo board of trustees member, said nobody forbade communication.

Hogan did not return calls regarding the college's influence, though some commission members claim Hogan abstained from voting during the Location Committee's approval of the LaPaglia report.

Commission member Mike Espy, who favors the Tougaloo location, told The Clarion-Ledger that the college needed no one to lobby board members for favoritism.

"Reuben didn't lobby anyone. Tougaloo arose on merits of its own with no influence from anyone with ties," Espy said.

Letters provided by an unnamed source do show the college attempted to solicit favor among commission members, however, as did supporters of the downtown Jackson location.

One letter, bearing the seal of the office of the President of Tougaloo College, depicts an appeal to one commission member about the merits of the Tougaloo location. Other letters in the packet depict endorsements by other well-known community and civil rights figures, such as Freedom Rider Carol Ruth Silver and members of the Tougaloo Nine, who factored heavily in the Civil Rights Movement in Mississippi.

Kamikaze called Espy's statement disingenuous.

"Those letters are concrete proof that there was some lobbying going on, and yet you tell the public that there was no lobbying," Kamikaze said.

Jackson resident Edgar Smith, who spoke at last week's council resolution, equated his public defense of Tougaloo that day as an appeal "made in a lion's den," but felt the college was being picked upon by speakers.

"I want to make clear that at no time has Tougaloo disparaged any other site. Tougaloo has tried to present every opportunity that we've had on the strength of its position, but never have we talked about any other site in Jackson," Smith said, reminding the council that Tougaloo was still, technically, located in Jackson and did not deserve opponents' denigration, even without its colorful role in the Civil Rights Movement.

Some commission members are noting the rising furor over the museum, and are getting nervous, explaining that the project was originally intended to promote unity.

"This project could wind up being one of those projects that make the white people feel guilty and the black people feel mad," said one member, speaking anonymously.

A report from Tennessee consulting firm LaPaglia & Associates booted the Jackson site to third place behind a Hattiesburg location, and a site near Tougaloo College. The Tougaloo site jumped from No. 10 on LaPaglia & Associates' list to take first place as the most desirable location after two-months' deliberation.

Members on the National Civil Rights Museum Commission, whose members were appointed by Gov. Haley Barbour after the state passed a bill supporting the construction of the museum, will consider LaPaglia & Associates' recommendation next week. Commission Co-Chairman Charles Pickering said the commission's location committee has already approved the consulting firm's recommendation, which increases the chance of the greater commission also approving the plan.

Previous Comments

ID

99184

Comment

This is starting to sound Two-Lakesian to me: Downplay the costs, get it approved and then hope like hell someone pays for the expensive infrastructure. Like the taxpayers. Here's my big question, folks: Where has the sunshine been in this process if the taxpayers, state or federal, are going to have to foot the bill for infrastructure improvements in order to put this museum (and private development) up there? Why didn't they have open, town-hall meetings? Where are the meeting announcements posted so people can attend? Where are the minutes of the meetings? Where are the records of recusals of people with conflicts of interests in the various plans? Why are there letters of support submitted by a commission member for her own organization included in the materials? Who has run this thing in such a closed, secret way? Clearly, everyone involved should have been treated the same, with specific rules in place and loads of sunshine. Then, if Tougaloo got the museum, fine. But it can't work this way, regardless of where the museum ends up. Barbour, and the commission, needs to hit rewind and start this process over with sunshine at every step of the way. Clearly, the way it's done has been tainted. Also, I still don't have the answer of who suggested/chose LaPaglia, and what ground rules they were given. If anyone has that kind of information, please be in touch with me or Adam.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-07T19:50:35-06:00

ID

99185

Comment

"(U.S. Rep.) Bennie Thompson could probably tell you more about that. He's the one who helped get that inducement to get the railroad track raised as well as the widening of the County Line Road. We're very proud of that," Walker said. "The whole thing, road and railroad, will add a whole lot of value to that area up there." Yeah, but when will it be done Walker? You don't have an answer for that do you? Did Bennie even get the funds to raise the railroad yet? I just rode by there today, and there is no way in heck that W County Line Rd will be done anytime in the near future. In fact why are they even working on what they are when the biggest hurdle is the railroad? Has anyone called the builder or the engineer who designed the new road to ask when the railroad will be done. I saw a Hemphill (??) truck down there today.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-07T20:30:11-06:00

ID

99186

Comment

I was wondering if that was a road being built. But I didn't see any activity on the other side of the track either. The Tougaloo site has the appearance of a boondoggle in the making.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-07T22:46:04-06:00

ID

99187

Comment

Un-friggin-believeable..The Tougaloo story with the positive Tougaloo spin..The headline..with the positive Tougaloo spin makes the FRONT page for everyone to see...after all dissenting opinions get buried in briefs on 2B....All the public has gotten to read is Tougaloo support. and negative comments about downtown..Making it look as if it is but a few bothersome voices against the other site. Pitiful. And still no where near the indepth info that JFP is disseminating. The info that dares make the Tougaloo folks on this commission appear questionable. .where is that in the CL article. Whos payin these people off??? lol. It really makes me lose faith in some folks around here.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-08T13:16:44-06:00

ID

99188

Comment

Had an interesting conversation today with a very high ranked Republican state official who will remain nameless. Talked about the location dispute. That person's take: "Oh that's just brilliant (insert sarcasm). Put it at Tougaloo. No one will go. It should go downtown where everyone will go to it. Unreal." Now I don't think the person literally meant no one would go to it at Tougaloo, but that, as a practical matter, this is a "no brainer" that it should go downtown.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-08T17:20:42-06:00

ID

99189

Comment

Do yall think that the date thats set to vote on the civil rights museum location was purposely put on the 11th so it could get caught up in the Mississippi democratic primary that same day.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-09T14:50:35-06:00

ID

99190

Comment

Absolutely!! unless the date was set a year ago. Especially considering the folks involved...of course they knew. And even as recently as a month ago when it was possible that MS's primary was going to be an important one..they could have postponed...

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-09T17:23:13-06:00

ID

99191

Comment

This vote will certainly be eclipsed by the Primaries. Also, any news from the museum meeting will be secondary to the votes.

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-03-09T18:17:32-06:00

ID

99192

Comment

No question about it. This date was set on purpose. As a matter of fact, I believe the vote was initially set to take place in late February. But what do you know: the date was moved to the date of the primary, a primary that promises to gather more state attention than any in recent history. This was calculated, in all likelihood.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-09T18:21:42-06:00

ID

99193

Comment

As a follow-up, they can try that route if they want to do that. But I would bet the farm that the local media will be all over it on Wednesday. The rouse will not work, if that is what they are counting on.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-09T18:28:07-06:00

ID

99194

Comment

Is there still a rally in the works for Tuesday?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-09T21:06:42-06:00

ID

99195

Comment

Yes ma'am! We're meeting at 9:30am on Tuesday at the Woofolk building downtown(corner of Lamar and West). Call and email all those who will come. Bring signs, bullhorns, and bodies..Im sure if we camp out out front there'll be some side door dipping lol.. But officially spread the word..

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-09T21:50:16-06:00

ID

99196

Comment

I can't believe they're doing all this before even starting on that railroad bit. I know Harvey tried moving the one on South State for years and got nowhere with that. How are they going to raise the one following North State/51 in an instant?

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-03-10T08:03:37-06:00

ID

99197

Comment

Theyre NOT..Its logistically impossible..not in the time frame THEYT claim..and its criminal how THAT is not getting fully reported in the CL..

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-10T09:16:22-06:00

ID

99198

Comment

Kaze you did good on the radio today i hope soon i can articulate my points as clearly as you. But you can tell the two gentleman who called and stood up for Tougaloo did it as passion and thats something we as African American dont lack but often times we have passion for the wrong things and wrong reasons. Kaze Mayor 09. Got my vote.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-10T09:23:16-06:00

ID

99199

Comment

New Jack..I dont...want..that..pressure..LOL..Ill start small. I dont thinkn this city is ready for me in THAT position yet. Its got some growing up to do. Besides Skipp is on tap for mayor. but Im tired..this has been one hell of a fight and if we go down..at least we'll go down swinging. I appreciate your passion. Round up as many folks as you can tomorrow to meet up at 9:30 at the woolfolk building..I doubt the commission members will face us..(they'll probably duck in a side door) and that unfortunate considering Im not MAD at any of them. We strongly disagree on the location of a museum. I feel our arguments are more valid. Period.. Meet us face to face..show yourselves.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-10T09:48:18-06:00

ID

99200

Comment

Truly but hope for the best.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-10T09:52:39-06:00

ID

99201

Comment

Question: Has notice been put out that this is a public meeting tomorrow? If not, we have a major problem with it -- especially knowing that the Tougaloo plan is going to cost major taxpayer money. Are there eminent domain issues involved? And I still want to know who is planning to do the development around the museum (and, thus, benefit off the infrastructure costs to the taxpayers). Anyone?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-10T10:20:31-06:00

ID

99202

Comment

Thank God I'm back. I accidentally deleted myself by error. I'm kind of dumb with this computer stuff. Lord knows I was missed sorely by so many. While I may not know computers, one thing I do know is where the National Civil Right Museum in Mississippi belongs and should be located. That is at the Tougaloo College site where "history is meeting the future." Nothing will be lost by putting it there and we Tougalooans are not trying to create any monument unto ourselves. We have already done that by earlier confronting Jim Grow Senior when few had the guts and subsequently snatching the vital organs from Mr. Crow and rendering him perpetually crippled if not dead. I hope we have the votes to put this thing at its rightful place on tomorrow. The voting day and time weren't purposely put at the same time as the political function. Anyway, at Tougaloo College we believe in multitasking.The fact that Mrs. Hogan, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Blackman, Mr. Walker, Mr. Horn(who married into a family of Tougaloo graduates) and other know and cherish the Tougaloo legacy won't cloud their judgment or affect their votes in any way just as the fact that I went to Tougaloo plays no part in my desire to have it at Tougaloo. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The museum need its own place - brand new with historical significance and without blight or other musuems or things to take away its pull and glory. Did any one argue the Taj Mahal, Eiffel Tower, the Pyramids, the Sphink, the National Mall be built in the same city and by other monuments so no one will have to travel? Of course not. It would be stupid. Each has their own significance and rightful location. To those who say the musuem will fail if located at or near Tougaloo College. Has Tougaloo died or failed? Those who want to come to the museum will come no matter where its located. We Tougalooans will make sure the location is inviting and the undisputed truth rains from the museum like a mighty river. Believe it. Count on it. Placing it at Tougaloo College will provide another drawing card for it. It won't be just sitting somewhere as a cold building without any heart, soul or vitality. There is any proof of any prsssure of any kind being exerted by us on anyone. We Tougalooans didn't even start to lobbying others for the Tougaloo site until others started lobbying to have it elsewhere. We rose from 10 to 1 because we were the best site. We didn't get to be Tougaloo College by sitting down and merely hoping everything would be alright. We fight for what's right.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T11:14:04-06:00

ID

99203

Comment

Ray, that all sounds great, but there is written indication of earlier lobbying efforts. Maybe the museum will end up at Tougaloo when this whole process has been conducted fairly and in the open. But if the commission votes tomorrow to put it at Tougaloo, then Mississippians/taxpayers have a right to be upset because the process has, in a word, stunk. BTW, the Eiffel Tower is pretty accessible to "downtown" Paris.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-10T11:30:46-06:00

ID

99204

Comment

Nice to see you back, Ray, though I thought you quit. Though I may disagree with you as to where the museum should be, hopefully, we can agree that the museum should be supported. I will still go no matter where it's placed.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-10T11:32:52-06:00

ID

99205

Comment

We don't quit at Tougaloo, Golden. We get mad, run off a minute, cuss 2 or 3 times, then return to fight another day. I'm visiting no matter where located also. I wonder how much visitation the other museums get down town. I've never been to any of them yet, and don't know anyone who has, but plan to some day. I wonder how many of the proponents of the museum being located downtown have visited the other museums down town?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T11:43:25-06:00

ID

99206

Comment

Ray argue with your logic not your passion or what you feel for your school, your position on this argument has been biased, i see you came back to drum support for your school, like i said we had students to die at JSU so if you want to say who deserves it the most than its JSU. Tougaloo is overrated when it comes to their significance and we around here are trying to show to much respect without offending tougaloo's contribution. But since yall think yall are God's gift to the civil rights movement let me set it straight, we would have civil rights regardless of Tougaloo. So after this issue is over you can go back to your regular scheduled programming of being fair as ive seen you be. But i guess since this issue involves your school your judgement is clouded with your love for Tougaloo. I had respect for you but lost it when you showed me you get closed minded when it comes to an issue that closely affects you.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-10T11:49:37-06:00

ID

99207

Comment

Excuse me for thinking out of the box again but there's a third alternative that no one seems to be talking about. Instead of thinking of a centralized museum in one location, one could also think about a "hub" museum and several "satellites." There could be a hub museum still located at Tougaloo College and satellite museums which could include a large site in downtown Jackson. The model for this in my mind, as an example, is the Freedom Trail National Historic Site in Boston. There are several sites on the Freedom Trail such as old North Church where Paul Revere originated his famous "One if by land, two if by Sea" ride; the African Meetinghouse Museum on Joy St. on the back of Beacon Hill; Old Faneuil Hall and Quincy Marketplace; and several other sites that make up a very popular short walking tour of historic Boston. I'm sure there will be economy of scale and cost objections, but thinking of a hub museum and several satellites creates a win-win situation rather than pitting two good groups of good people one against the other. Just an idea. Excuse me for butting and again (I've been told Mississippians don't like being told how we do things up north). Will

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-10T12:09:05-06:00

ID

99208

Comment

Well NewJack I can live with lost of any respect for me. I'm not going to say anything negative about JSU or you NewJack. I still respect you and Kamikaze, JSU graduates, no matter what. As to Tougaloo being overrated, all I know is that one little old school off county line road for decades sent more black students to medical, dental and law schools than any other similar school. For many decades also that same school sent more black students to those kinds of professional schools than all the other likekind of schools combined. I bet even today, despite a new day and the other schools improving drasticly, we still send the most students to the above kinds of professional schools. I won't even mention other areas of concentration where we're also competetive. I don't know that makes us overated. There is no comparison between Tougaloo and JSU when it comes to Civil Rights' contribution. You're the only one arguing JSU's contribution exceeds our. Your own graduates know that's not true. Yes, many people outside and beyond Tougaloo contributed and participated greatlyin the Civil Rights struggle. We have never denied that. I won't belittle the deaths that you can't stop talking about as if nothing else occurred beyond that awful event. How is it that I can't possibly believe Tougaloo is the best site? Is it not possible for us Tougaloo graduates to think Tougaloo is the best site. Have you seen me criticizing the Tougaloo graduates for thinking the museum should be down town. I accept the fact that we disagree. I do it without any animosity.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T12:18:01-06:00

ID

99209

Comment

Of course New Jack I was talking about likekind of schools in Mississippi. Surely, you know that!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T12:30:13-06:00

ID

99210

Comment

Ray we not hating on tougaloo, listen to what to we are saying man. But no love lost man. i want whats best for jackson just like you want whats best for Tougaloo.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-10T12:38:36-06:00

ID

99211

Comment

What's best for Tougaloo College is also best for Jackson and Mississippi as a whole. I guarantee we're not trying to pull business from Jackson to Ridgeland or Madison County. They haven't shown us any great love over the years and we're not mindless of the past. I don't deny that I want that land near and around Tougaloo developed so that we can make money and eventually compete on an equal basis with Morehouse, Xaxier, Spellman, Hampton, et al, and other UNCF schools. This will be a great benefit to the mission of Tougaloo to educate poor students and produce trailblazers for the future. Despite Tougaloo's substantial accomplishments with so little money, we haven't ever had the financial wherewithal to compete with many of the richer UNCF schools. They call us "poor little old Tougaloo." I'll admit that many Tougalooans don't want the museum at Tougaloo because if it fails to bring the visitors or whatever else is contemplated, Tougaloo will be blamed rightfully or wrongfully. Some graduates don't want to risk such a hit as we know there are some who want it to fail and will be too glad to balme us. This possibility even make me nervous about having it there. While it hasn't been said as of yet publicly or specifically, I bet there are those who question whether the existence or original purpose of Tougaloo still exist - to educate slaves or poor black students or poor folks or black students to challenge and help shape the world we live in. Although Tougaloo gets no money from the Mississippi legislature I bet there are many bias citizen of Mississippi, just as in the past, who ask why is Tougaloo allowed to exist since it educates primarily black students? Many of the same bias citizens have never likewise asked and won't ever ask the same question about Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Milsaps, et al. In my view this is one of the reasons Tougaloo still needs to exist. Perhaps Will's idea will get some consideration on tomorrow. I'm out and finished.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T13:09:58-06:00

ID

99212

Comment

Ray, you almost persuaded me. Beatiful musuem among the mossy trees of Tougaloo, quite a serene picture. But back to the bottom line, musuems draw tourists and there has to be some type of revenue stream to keep the thing afloat. The Tougaloo site is too remote to attract enought "tourists" to make that site economically feasible. I like Will's idea... put a satellite there, but the main hub of the musuem should be downtown where you can attract tourists and you can attract downtown workers who otherwise would never visit the musuem if it was at Tougaloo.

Author

lanier77

Date

2008-03-10T13:35:12-06:00

ID

99213

Comment

Why can't you guys get your big money alum to develop the land around Tougaloo? What do you think they do at all the other colleges you listed? Excuse me while I pay my state taxes - taxes that go to JSU! Go Tigers! And, a shout out to Valley, and MS Univ. for Women too!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-10T13:38:07-06:00

ID

99214

Comment

I second Will's call for a satellite branch at Tougaloo.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-10T13:50:56-06:00

ID

99215

Comment

Don't worry we do plan to develop the other land around Tougaloo. At all the other colleges I listed in Mississippi get money from the State or associations or groups backing the school or college. As to Morehouse, Xavier and the likes I doubt that rich graduates have developed any or much land around those schools. In this case, all Tougaloo did was offer a small piece of land for public good, not for any development. We plan to develop the other land around Tougaloo. We don't have any super rich graduates. We haven't been trying to produce capitalistic business moguls who have to cheat or make "bribes" to get their riches. Tougaloo graduates do do a decent job of supporting the school financially. I'm personally giving $10,000-$20,000 in May 2008 although I'm a poor state attorney. The wife and I will just have to walk to work and not eat as much the rest of the year.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T14:02:05-06:00

ID

99216

Comment

Ray, who is planning to develop the land? What developers are involved? This is the kind of information that would be very helpful to people.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-10T14:04:26-06:00

ID

99217

Comment

"I second Will's call for a satellite branch at Tougaloo." golden eagle '97. Are you trying to get me in trouble today golden eagle?

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-10T14:12:43-06:00

ID

99218

Comment

What did Espy say at the luncheon today? I couldn't make it.

Author

QB

Date

2008-03-10T14:16:57-06:00

ID

99219

Comment

Are you trying to get me in trouble today golden eagle? No, I truly agree with you on that, although I'm sure there would be more cost involved in doing that, if it's even doable.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-10T15:11:39-06:00

ID

99220

Comment

This is like children in the playground on a see-saw. In order for one to be up, the other has to be down; for one to win, the other has to lose. This is also a good metaphor for the Civil Rights movement. In order for black people to get a leg up,certain white people saw it as them having to take a step down, ie; the dislike of affirmative action. Dr. King was linking the Civil Rights movement to the anti-war movement, anti-poverty programs and the unions - and show us how the Civil Rights movement was a better deal for white people too. I'm probably not saying it exactly right, but as long as it's a win-lose setup, not a win-win paradigm someone is going to wake up cranky in the morning. There's other ways of looking at this situation and working with it.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-10T15:52:22-06:00

ID

99221

Comment

Lanier i'm with you in your comments to some degree. I been to many civil rights museum but not to a single one of them by accident or happenstance. I intended to go to each one. I do want the museum to pay for itself financially if possible and to help foster equality and harmony if that's possible as well. I don't know to what extent any of the civil rights museums make much money. As I stood in Atlanta, Birmingham Baltimore, Washington DC and Memphis I watched people come in and out and wondered to myself whether any of them could sustain itself permanently and perpetually. I was touched by the effect they all seemed to have on my generation and older people. I couldn't guage the real of full effect they had on younger people although I tried. As an avid reader of this history, I see very little in the museums I haven't seen or read about before. Will and Golden I will mention your proposal to the people I know to see if any interest on their parts. Actually, I don't care where the museum winds up eventually but I would likely be more willing to spend money and time ensuring its survival and vitality if I were located 2 miles from where I spent my teen years, 3 miles from where I live now and where I attended college. I can't lie about that. I'm proud of my alma mater for making its case for the museum, and I will be proud of my colleagues no matter how they vote tomorrow. I'm furthermore glad that most of them have much quiter and more serene natures than I do. I hope the end of the matter is near and I'm glad the matter played out so publicly and vociferously. In my humble view we Tougalooans can't logically and reasonably be accused of pulling any wool at this stage. I'm not knocking those members of the commission who will vote to have the museum down town, nor am I vilifying or demonizing those who vote to have it at the Tougaloo site. I'm not buying the crap that you can't be a Tougaloo graduate or associate and not be bias unless I'm to likewise to beleive and accept the false proposition that you can't be graduates of other schools and not be bias to positions of that school or be members of any groups, organizations, genders or ethnicities else to bias to the interest of those groups, organizations, sexes or immutable charateristics. It seems to me this is the overriding claim being made. To persuade me of any Tougaloo College bias, I'd need to hear how each voted and their statement as to why they voted a certain way in order to determine pretext or clear discrimination. As our U.S. Supreme Courts keeps repeating "statistic alone does not prove bias or discrimination." Their must be a showing of intent beyond the numbers.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-10T16:39:02-06:00

ID

99222

Comment

Well, we all better CARE when around $75,000,000.00 is going to be placed on leased land. (For how much per year and for how many years?) We all better CARE when there is not even a start on raising the railroad. Only the road is under construction, not the part that will go under the railroad and connect to the existing County Line Road behind Target. We all better CARE when this museum is being located in Madison County and any development around it will be in Madison County. We all better CARE when we are asking the 1,500,000 annual visitors to Downtown have to drive to see the Museum. We all better CARE when you can't just drop by the Museum after work or during your lunch break. We all better CARE when our Civil Rights Museum is hidden away in the woods instead of front and center in Downtown Jackson to stand as a tribute to all who cared enough to fight.

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-03-10T17:24:18-06:00

ID

99223

Comment

Regardless of the outcome, I'll be so glad when this is over.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-10T20:00:01-06:00

ID

99224

Comment

Got this DJP summary in an email. Read it and let me know what you think. POINTS TO CONSIDER IN THE SITE SELECTION PROCESS OF THE NATIONAL CIVIL RIGHTS MUSEUM IN MISSISSIPPI •The 66 block area of downtown Jackson is one of the safest places in the state. •Over $814 Million in Downtown Development. •Traffic on Pearl, Pascagoula & Capitol expected to triple in 5 years according to Central Mississippi Planning and Development District with current projects. •Jackson was told not to make a "public spectacle" and was discouraged from inviting a large support contingency while other sites apparently invited public support from the tri-county area for the Phase II site visitation process. •If more acreage is needed, both sites on Mill Street can be combined to a very large site and the property across Mill Street is also available making a combined site of over 6 acres. •Sustainability: Much has been said about the blighted area that the Downtown locations are currently surrounded by. The Jackson Zoo is considered to be located in a "blighted area" but is also the most visited tourist attraction in the state second only to the Vicksburg Military Park. •At least 1.5 million visitors each year attend downtown events. There are virtually no visitors to the west County Line Road site. •Leased land is not acceptable for the site of this museum where millions of dollars will be invested from the private and public sector. •Everyone who attends the museum at West County Line Road site will have to drive in their cars. There are no facilities, including motels and restaurants within walking distance. •The executive summary talks about adding additional buildings (including a conference center) at a later time. These other venues, including the Alamo Theater and the Convention Center are already downtown. Why would you force us to duplicate investments that have already been made? •Twenty-five of the 55 civil rights sites are located in downtown Jackson. These sites are walkable from a downtown Civil Rights Museum. •The selection process was flawed due to a lack of transparency.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-10T20:17:20-06:00

ID

99225

Comment

OK, I've cleaned this up, deleting personal insults. Let me know in e-mail if you think I missed any particularly offensive ones. We will have a zero-tolerance policy on personal insults going forward. They will be deleted without further comment and the person posting the insult will be suspended without comment.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-10T21:13:06-06:00

ID

99226

Comment

As for those points, I sure don't get the "leased" land part. And the transparency has been so flawed that we should restart the process. I assume the responsibility for allowing this thing to get so out of control belongs with Barbour, and his chairmen, Charles Pickering and Reuben Anderson. They should do the right thing and announce tomorrow that the process is going to reverse and bring in public transparency, especially about all the tax money that will be spent to make this site work at all. I can't believe they've tried to hide so much from the public. It's an embarrassment.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-10T21:19:26-06:00

ID

99227

Comment

According to the C-L, it looks like a done deal. Congratulations to Tougaloo College and its supporters to have the museum located near campus.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-03-11T11:31:43-06:00