Ellington

called Old Capitol Green. This will be an eight-block project bounded by Pearl Street to the north, Commerce St. to the west, South St. to the south and Jefferson to the east. Once finished, it will consist of the following:

A 3,000-space parking garage
550,000 square feet of office space
134,000 square feet of retail space
80,000 square feet of entertainment and dining space
78,000 square feet of cultural-community space (museum maybe?)
500,000 square feet/500 units of residential space
100,000 square feet/100-room hotel

In addition, there will be an estimated 5,500 people living there and 1,400 permanent jobs created.

Much of the property in the area is owned by the state and Entergy, so it can't go forward without the state selling the property first. State Sen. John Horhn will try to push to get this bill passed this year. This will be a great thing for the redevelopment efforts for downtown.

Now to Bailey Magnet. Last night, WAPT reported that Jackson Public Schools is looking to develop the land that bounds Bailey Magnet High School to the north and east. I didn't see a link to this on WAPT or JPS' websites, but from what was shown on 16, the side facing UMC will have residential (described as upscale condos) and commercial space. The condos appear to be high rises, too. The area immediately east of Bailey will consist of medical space. Since JPS will still own the land, they could stand to reap in as much as $3 million a year. Provided everything goes well, construction could start as early as this December and should be completed by the end of 2008.

While the surrounding area in question is not in dire straits, it would provide a big boost to the area and the city as a whole benefits. Seems like Jackson is the place to be right now.

Editor's note: Also see the JFP's story about downtown development, including the Old Capitol Green, from September 2005. There are interesting comments under that story as well.

Previous Comments

ID

87608

Comment

Finally Something that will look like it has always been there instead of another "Whoville". When you Guys do something in Jackson, you do it right......it just takes a little more time in these early days of your "boom". Congratulations.....

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-02-21T17:28:48-06:00

ID

87609

Comment

Yeah, if we can just keep that Starbucks out of Fondren. ;-) I know about the Bailey Magnet thing, too. Expect more news on that soon.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-21T17:34:25-06:00

ID

87610

Comment

Also, here's Adam's September 2005 story about Capitol Green and other development projects, and a thread talking about it. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-21T17:38:21-06:00

ID

87611

Comment

YAY, first good news in some time. dont see any way they would let this slip through the cracks. Now who do we have to yell at to keep starbucks out?

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-21T17:48:05-06:00

ID

87612

Comment

Guys/Gals...there's one that has cropped up by the Interstate 20 in Anniston, Alabama. They are every where! I don't think your gonna keep them out of Fondren....The ghostly Garden Grows!

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-02-21T18:02:38-06:00

ID

87613

Comment

Mike Peters and Ted Duckworth are good starts. Don't yell at them, though; they're great guys doing amazing things in Jackson. They just need to hear that Starbuck's is not the way to keep the local-business economy strong. And that we want to honor our peeps who have been there from the start -- like the owners of Cups -- by not setting them up for failure with a mega-corporate coffee chain with a history of goggling up (and intententionally) the little guys. Competition, yeah. Goliaths, no.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-21T18:44:49-06:00

ID

87614

Comment

We vote with our money. Go to Cups, leave Starbucks behind. They'd fold soon... >:) The Capitol Green idea is spectacular. Question, though: I know with the new Convention Center that we will have enough business for another hotel downtown. Do we have that kind of base now? Or will we have it soon enough to make another downtown hotel worthwhile? Never mind me: I honestly don't know much about it, and I would like to learn. :)

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2006-02-21T19:33:29-06:00

ID

87615

Comment

We vote with our money. Go to Cups, leave Starbucks behind. They'd fold soon... >:) Lady, I wish that were true, but their modus operandi is to go into cool communities, especially redeveloping ones, after the locals have done the hard work of getting people back to them. They have extremely deep pockets, so they cut prices and do everything in their power to outlast the locals. I've seen it in city after city. In the East Village in NYC, they opened two Starbuck's next to a local coffee shop. Guess which two of the three are still there. The farsighted strategy is to try to keep them out in the first place. Thank Wal-Mart for the coffee crowd.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-21T19:36:19-06:00

ID

87616

Comment

What great news. Great article and Adam's original story very very good as well.

Author

Niles Hooper

Date

2006-02-21T20:32:01-06:00

ID

87617

Comment

Is Starbucks not already on board? As in, signed the dotted line? I seemed to remember Peters saying they were, along with Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I've also seen it posted that they wanted something that would draw people into town FROM the suburbs...Starbucks doesn't really fit that, in my mind. I think that the Fondren Beverage Emporium would be more of an attraction (this isn't in Fondren Place, but nearby). I'm not sold that Starbucks would sink the original Cups, but I'm sure ladd would disagree. Great news about the Bailey area! I recall that Isaac Byrd had a development planned for somewhere off of Woodrow Wilson about the time that the Bandits (R.I.P.) announced they were going to build their new arena by the football stadium. It, like the Bandits and everything associated with them, apparently bit the dust. I don't think these were in the same location, but they wouldn't have been too far from each other. Probably would've been a huge boon to midtown had it worked out...but, it's getting along nicely anywho.

Author

millhouse

Date

2006-02-21T20:59:54-06:00

ID

87618

Comment

WOO HOO! Downtown development...Make it so, Number 1. :-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-21T21:32:41-06:00

ID

87619

Comment

Wow. Old Capitol Green sounds pretty doggone cool. Throw that in with the residential lofts that have just opened up in the old electric building and you've got some serious options for downtown living, even if they don't renovate the King Edward (which is still a live possibility). I like where Jackson is headed. And call me crazy, but I'm just not that worried about Starbucks. Cups is run by some mighty clever people who aren't afraid to make it more than a coffee shop--bringing in local artists and musicians, offering wireless Internet, the works. Starbucks has to deal with national corporate policy and can't easily innovate--not to mention the fact that it's riding a Trendy Coffee Shop fad that jumped the shark with the second season of Friends. The dinosaurs were a whale of a lot bigger than the little furry mammals, but they weren't as good at adapting when the meteor hit. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-21T23:30:43-06:00

ID

87620

Comment

Starbucks aside, the benefits from these proposals is going to widen the wage gap. The apartments/condos/lofts they are building ain't going to be cheap. Who know who far the property value increases will run into the neighborhoods. Getting to B&J i have always wanted, others to i'm sure, an ice cream place in fondren,brents is closed at night, when most people want ice cream. FBE has the space and could make it work, but i don't totally object to the ben and jerry's simply because if noone locally has thought about it and tried it then corps, however big are small should get a chance. Nothing beats the candy milkshake at brents though. I did a case study on ben and jerry's, they pretend to be an ethical company started in a grass roots gas station in vermont. They are selling ice cream ben has had a few heart attacks from tasting too much, they act like not injecting hormones into the cows is good, which it is. But they hide some of the facts about ice cream and have short changed the people that got them their, they are sort of like wal mart in a way, but that is looking way too far into it.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-22T09:22:12-06:00

ID

87621

Comment

It's easy to badger and beat on Starbucks for shutting out local coffee houses but what about these developers building residential property that won't be accessible to the large majority of Jacksonians and even those in the Metro area. From what I've been told, most of the condos in Fondren Place will be priced well over what most houses in the area go for... Is Fondren on its way to gentrification? Has it already been gentrified? On one hand, I won't complain about potential property values increasing (I own a house in the area)... But, on the other, a lot of young creatives will be forced (due to elevated and inflated costs) relocate to other areas if not done correctly. This happened in downtown Memphis and many people flooded in and bought penthouses and condos... Shortly thereafter, the bubble burst and everyone was moving back to midtown (for the affordable housing and diversified neighborhood) from what I saw with many of my friends.

Author

kaust

Date

2006-02-22T09:46:21-06:00

ID

87622

Comment

Is Fondren on its way to gentrification?

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-22T10:12:39-06:00

ID

87623

Comment

From what I've been told, most of the condos in Fondren Place will be priced well over what most houses in the area go for... Don't the lofts in the Electric Building cost about $1500 a month? Anyway, the price of the apartments and what "starving" artists often bring home did cross my mind. What if there were condos with a range of prices in one building? Hey, I wouldn't mind living in one someday.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-22T10:24:03-06:00

ID

87624

Comment

Don't the lofts in the Electric Building cost about $1500 a month? That's it i thought they were going for like 600k, that rent or own? I wish i didn't have big dogs.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-22T10:32:59-06:00

ID

87625

Comment

I thought I saw that number in the Hinds Ledger, which I don't have any more. I can't remember if they said rent or own.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-22T10:43:29-06:00

ID

87626

Comment

The ones in Fondren Place are starting at $200,000+ from what I've been told... I know someone living in 308 and that $1500 sounds about right... She's leasing.

Author

kaust

Date

2006-02-22T10:46:14-06:00

ID

87627

Comment

Being in Mississippi, I've been spolied by cheaper rental rates. $1500 is pretty average up North, isn't it? I guess that if you really wanted to live in a loft, you could get a roommate or two, or three...I usually don't do roommates. Had a bad experience once.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-22T11:46:23-06:00

ID

87628

Comment

Let me rephrase that...I usually don't do living with roommates. Phew!

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-22T11:47:30-06:00

ID

87629

Comment

"Being in Mississippi, I've been spolied by cheaper rental rates. $1500 is pretty average up North, isn't it?" - LW Pretty average/common, yes... But their wages are generally higher to compensate the higher cost of living.

Author

kaust

Date

2006-02-22T11:49:33-06:00

ID

87630

Comment

I'd rather have wealthy people living, shopping, and paying taxes in the city than in new McMansion developments out in the suburbs. I think wealthy people can be good for the city. A city without them will be ignored by the federal and state governments. People with lots of money invested in city property will work hard to protect their investments, too. We just need to work hard to make sure that affordable housing is available in the city along with the expensive stuff. There are lots of ideas on how to do that, and I'm not expert enough to comment on which way is best. I also like wealthy people coming into the city because it means they’ll be just that much less isolated from people of other economic classes. Here in Philly I see the rich, the poor, and everyone in between on my way to work every day. Ignorance born of isolation is harder to come by in a city. But I think "new urbanism" can be good for all classes. A house in a dense neighborhood takes up less real estate and theoretically could be cheaper than a house of the same size with a quarter-acre of yard around it. A hundred years ago in Philadelphia this was the thinking behind the classic Philly row house: small, affordable houses that helped Philadelphia have one of the highest rates of home ownership in the nation at that time, and made Philadelphia's working class the envy of their neighbors in New York's crowded tenements. Plus, real urban design can make a city where people can live without cars. This means a household could save, by standard estimates, about $6,000 per year on car payments, insurance, and gas. That's nothing to sneeze at for a working-class family.

Author

Mark Michalovic

Date

2006-02-22T12:19:14-06:00

ID

87631

Comment

Now I have to worry about Bailey. Grand old building, but what happens when the Upper Classes get tired of looking at the best the WPA had to offer? It happens.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-02-22T12:28:38-06:00

ID

87632

Comment

You're right. We should be concerned about Bailey here.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T12:31:45-06:00

ID

87633

Comment

Pretty average/common, yes... But their wages are generally higher to compensate the higher cost of living. I forgot about that part. Duh.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-22T12:40:20-06:00

ID

87634

Comment

Now I have to worry about Bailey. Grand old building, but what happens when the Upper Classes get tired of looking at the best the WPA had to offer? Can the building be added to the historic register if it hasn't been already?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-22T12:43:29-06:00

ID

87635

Comment

Knol, good point on the upped rent. It'll also probably have a segregating effect, due to the race:wage gap, and I don't like that. In some circles, "gentrification" always seems to be slang for "white folks moving in" in much the same way "transitional neighborhood" always seems to be slang for "black folks moving in." The ideal for everyone, I think, is racially integrated middle-class and working-class neighborhoods and housing with some upper-income neighborhoods available for those who want them--plenty of places for everybody to live regardless of income level, but no where-the-hell-is-the-landlord property. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-22T13:53:03-06:00

ID

87636

Comment

L.W., great idea on Bailey. I wonder how we'd go about getting that done? Ben, you reading this? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-22T13:53:43-06:00

ID

87637

Comment

just a note on the Starbucks conversation. where I used to live (Oakland, CA) there was a great little shopping district with a local coffee shop on one corner and a Starbucks just next to it. The local place was always jam packed --students & neighborhood locals, usually. the STarbucks did a moderate business but was never packed and seemed to cater to business types having meetings and tourists. My point here is that the locals who want local flavor will self-select IF they have the option. the problem is if Sbucks beats out all the competition and there is no option.

Author

Izzy

Date

2006-02-22T14:08:06-06:00

ID

87638

Comment

Have you checked in on the health of the local shop in Oakland lately? I was bummed to see recently in Birmingham a Starbuck's near a coffee shop we used to enjoy when passing through. It was gone. Starbuck's can afford to wait it out with a long-term business strategy. Kinda like Wal-Mart.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T14:16:01-06:00

ID

87639

Comment

Hey, just on a whim I googled the place. It's called Gaylord's Coffee on Piedmont and six years later it is still going strong. With Starbucks directly across the street. I called them just now & the place is packed. Here's a link to local comments about the place: http://www.yelp.com/biz/sHGQDXh0jvM8FrJAZ_DSjQ?hrid=eecpgmq5kMl4XG2n9eUzUg

Author

Izzy

Date

2006-02-22T14:21:35-06:00

ID

87640

Comment

Laurel, I know the place you're talking about and can testify. Actually, there are quite a few in Oakland and SF that are nearby Starbucks and going strong. I don't think Starbucks is a Cups-killer AT ALL. I think the people that regular Cups appreciate it for what it is and would support it even if there was a Starbucks up the street. Hell, Cups is the main reason none of the other coffee shops have thrived in the Fondren area. You just can't beat them for local flavor!

Author

kaust

Date

2006-02-22T14:25:18-06:00

ID

87641

Comment

Knol, thanks. I think SF bay area may offer some good models for this--maybe because they have had such strong neighborhood identities & cultural identities for a good long time. I don't know but would be interested to learn more about communities that brought in the occasional national chain (SBucks, Ben & J or other) without completely losing focus...because I *do* sympathize with Donna's point.

Author

Izzy

Date

2006-02-22T14:37:09-06:00

ID

87642

Comment

I don't think Starbucks is a Cups-killer AT ALL. This is the same belief that has gotten a lot of local coffee places, well, killed. A big problem is that a lot of the folks you see hanging out aren't coffeehouse's bread and butter, even if they provide color. A lot of the bottom line is shored up by professionals passing through and spending $5 every day -- the very ones who might choose Starbuck's if it were an option. Again, I think a good coffee/breakfast place in the Duling building is a great idea, and competition is good for all. I'm nothing if not a (true) free-enterprise gal. However, a Goliath with a track record of destroying small businesses without regret is not the a long-sighted choice. I'd much rather see, say, a Beagle Bagel get help to go in there, so you get another breakfast/lunch choice and other choices for coffee. But they are also locally owned and without the Deep Pockets of Destruction that Starbuck's brings.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T14:42:41-06:00

ID

87643

Comment

Will the Starbucks be as accessible as the Cups though? Cups is pretty easy to get to (both downtown and in Fondren).... Right in and right out on the way to work or on a break. Starbucks may be a little "too out of the way" for the average commuter rushing to work -- especially if it's tucked away in a "mall." It's also further from UMC which I suspect is a major supply of customers/clients for Cups. I still don't think Starbucks would damage Cups as much as it has other coffee shops... But, I'm certainly no soothsayer.

Author

kaust

Date

2006-02-22T14:50:36-06:00

ID

87644

Comment

I was bummed to see recently in Birmingham a Starbuck's near a coffee shop we used to enjoy when passing through The one on 22nd street heading to 5 points? I will be in Bham this weekend and was looking forward to going there. Barneys i think it's called

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-22T14:57:08-06:00

ID

87645

Comment

Actually in thinking about it I would have to say that Gaylord's in Oakland made VERY good drinks, I mean, perfect. If you are not a coffee lover you might not know just how good AND bad an espresso drink can be. Seriously. It's like a nice Pinot vs. cheapo house wine. Anyway, if I have to be honest I will say that the espresso drinks at most local cafes (here I am thinking Cups, Flashbacks in Byram and Gravity in Clinton) do not compare. They are simply not made as well. You may argue that with me but that’s my opinion. YET, I love the atmosphere at Cups and the fact that local art is there and all kinds of things. I can agree that Starbucks is intent on bullying the competition. At this point if bringing them to Fondren would mean no more Cups, then I can honestly say I would rather drive to County Line for my Starbucks and keep Cups alive, if it came down to that. And I agree with Donna on this, the risk is very real. Still, though, I still think that Gaylord's is living proof this kind of co-habitation can happen. I am not sure what it takes, though. I think honestly Cups would lose to Starbucks on quality of beverages unless they made a few changes. Gaylord’s drinks were much better, in general espresso at local cafes in SF Bay area is better. I think it has to do with the time lag between making the coffee and mixing it, and other things. I realize this post is going on and on and some of you may be thinking, “Jeez, who cares this much about a dang cup of coffee!” However, having lived in the SF Bay area I can tell you that there is a connection between the creative class and great coffee. People sitting in coffee shops, working on laptops, meeting about projects. Weekend walks down to the local café, have a sandwich and a latte. It’s an urban cultural thing…

Author

Izzy

Date

2006-02-22T15:05:07-06:00

ID

87646

Comment

I don't think Starbucks (or Seattle Drip, for that matter) will kill off local coffee places like Cups. Personally, I don't drink coffee, so I don't know what each place has to offer. Mom-and-pop business have been able to compete with fast-food restaurants, grocery stores like Kroger and other big businesses and manage to stay around. It's all about offering a good product and people will come to you if you offer it. On the subject of gentrification, while I want to see areas of Jackson fixed up so that wealthier people can move in (thus increasing the tax base), I'm also concerned about poorer residents who live in those areas now who probably would not afford to live in those same neighborhoods anymore because when new developments spring up, property valuations rise. That's great, but you'll also pay more in taxes. Some conspiracy theorists may say that it's a ploy to push blacks and the poor out of the city and into the surrounding communities. I don't think it's quite like that, but we do need to try and strike a balance. This is also my concern about New Orleans and the MS Gulf Coast as those areas try to rebuild.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2006-02-22T15:24:46-06:00

ID

87647

Comment

Laurel, I'll chime in on your assertion that Cups would have to start making a significantly better cup of coffee than they currently offer, if they want to beat out a Starbucks. Starbucks, for all its faults, makes a consistently good cup of coffee. Cups, I've never been impressed with. And yes, Gaylord's really did/does offer an exceptional cup of coffee. Plus, the Piedmont Ave area has *alot* more people willing to spend $5/day on a cup of coffe than there are in Fondren. That said, I don't want a Starbucks in my neighborhood, nor do I really want any big chain. They're boring.

Author

kate

Date

2006-02-22T16:08:34-06:00

ID

87648

Comment

I guess it's a matter of personal taste. I can barely get through the a.m. without my skinny latte from Cups. And I second Laurel's concern on gentrification. We're getting to the point where we really need to pay attention to this threat.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T16:10:36-06:00

ID

87649

Comment

in keeping with the general starbucks and gaylord's theme, i just moved here from the bay area and before that from western massachusetts--in both places, snotty liberals (including this girl) turned up their noses at the starbucks in favor of the local spots. in mass. in particular, two very popular local coffee shops almost literally flanking the starbucks were always PACKED, while everyone would openly sneer at you if they found out you were studying at starbucks. part of this fun was that the appearance of starbucks made the smaller places care more about offering the personal, localized service that only they can offer (e.g. actually free wireless as opposed to this t-mobile hot spot business you have to pay for...because starbucks can't afford to provide wireless?). but, much as i love cups, and much of my weekends and evenings as i spend there (and will continue to, starbucks or no), i think they could stand the competition--it's kind of infuriating not to have prices posted, and i for one could deal with a few more snack choices. neither of those things is enough to drive me away from cups, much less to starbucks, but sometimes competition is a good thing, so if starbucks is an inevitability, which it may be, this is my looking on the bright side.

Author

Margaret

Date

2006-02-22T16:12:14-06:00

ID

87650

Comment

Good points, m. I'll be frank, though: I worry that the "shop local" may not have caught on strongly enough here, as opposed to Amherst or the Bay Area, to keep a place like Cups alive long enough in the shadows of a Starbucks. (Again, I support other competition.) It's like the Wal-Mart effect: In the South, it was seen as progress, and people flocked to Wal-Mart. By the time they realized it was actually detrimental to the communities, many of the local businesses were gone. I'm afraid this will repeat with Starbuck's. And, frankly, I also hate to see developers who have been so strong so far on the "local" point do this to the local businesses that made Fondren what it is. Especially when they just don't have to. On the inevitability point, that may be true. But it also argues about why we need to have these discussions NOW instead of later, in order to keep people from flocking to Wal-Mart, so to speak.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T16:19:36-06:00

ID

87651

Comment

While we're on the Shop Local bandwagon, I'd like to make sure that everyone's heard that the MS Farmer's Market is re-Grand-Opening this Saturday. It's a re-opening, because the Market ran from last spring until just after KatrinaRita, and a Grand Opening, because it will be the first time in the new facility (which was supposed to open last spring, but, er, didn't). For those of you who don't know, this is a Farmer's Market that features only MS produce, provided by small MS farmer's. I'm not sure which vendors will be back this spring (the farmer's were hit *hard* by a HOT august, then Katrina, then Rita), but come on out and see what kind of fresh, local produce you can find. The new facility is on High Street, where the old Flea Market used to be. It'll be open this Saturday from 9 to 3. More info here: http://www.mdac.state.ms.us/n_library/departments/farm_mkt/index_farmmkt.html

Author

kate

Date

2006-02-22T16:20:20-06:00

ID

87652

Comment

I'm basically a capitalist, but I'd rather see a local chain compete with Cups than a McStarbucks. And agreed on Beagle Bagel--I love that place. I also have very fond memories of Cups. I was there every Tuesday and Friday evening for, goodness, three or four years, and hung out with both my regular cadre of pals and anyone else sitting around who looked lonely or bored. Fun place to be. That said... I don't drink coffee at all anymore. My doctor took me off caffeine a couple of years ago because it sometimes triggered an irregular heartbeat, and then when I had a cup of Sanka a couple of months ago and my pulse went up to 90, I knew that even decaf was probably no longer a good option for me. So I drink herbal tea, and only herbal tea--not coffee, not black tea. Well, I'll splurge for the occasional cup of decaf green, but that's it for now. If I go to Cups (and I will--it's a good hangout and I still love the smell of coffee brewing, even more than I love the flavor to be perfectly honest), it'll be for herbal tea or a slushy or something else along those lines. And agreed on the snacks. Sooner or later you get tired of muffins, biscotti, and really, really rich cake. If they add deli sandwiches, I think they'll make a killing. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-22T16:22:43-06:00

ID

87653

Comment

Yep, I'd like to see Cups expand their food offerings, too. Believe it or not, one of the best coffeehouses I've been to (menu and atmosphere-wise) is in my hometown of Philadelphia, Miss.! The Coffee Bean has a full lunch menu and all sorts of nibbles and such. If they can make it there ... I tell you, it's almost worth a road trip just to go to this place. We ate there nearly every day during the Killen trial. (And talk about an intriguing mix of people eating side by side—from national media figures and civil rights heroes to redneck attorneys and amused locals. Twas sump'un.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T16:25:49-06:00

ID

87654

Comment

amen to discussions now instead of later--am i fully naive to think that the current clientele of cups, though, is predominantly of the shop local mindset? (perhaps i am). hurrah for the farmer's market!

Author

Margaret

Date

2006-02-22T16:25:49-06:00

ID

87655

Comment

I know I need to go to Philadelphia for something one of these days, though at the moment I can't remember what. While I'm there, I'll definitely check out the Coffee Bean. It sounds like a really nice little place. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-22T16:30:58-06:00

ID

87656

Comment

I'll weigh in on the coffee opinion. I've always liked Cups better simply because every time I have a cup of Starbucks, it tastes like roasted feet. And, I AM a coffee drinker. One of those fools who still gets up and drinks a POT before she can function for the day. I love good coffee. (OFF TOPIC: And, if anyone cares, the Hilton hotel has the best coffee I've ever tasted. I once began vibrating at a conference held there because I couldn't get away from it.) That being said, I hope they don't put a Starbucks anywhere downtown. THe smell of the roasted feet has a tendency to surround the place....whereever they are.

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-02-22T16:31:16-06:00

ID

87657

Comment

I once began vibrating at a conference held there because I couldn't get away from it. That may well be the sentence o' the month so far, although I do like the comparison to "roasted feet." I tend to agree. And I tend to like Cups' dark coffee, too.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T16:33:23-06:00

ID

87658

Comment

Since we're bashing or praising coffee broad street and community coffee is the nastiest stuff i have ever put in my mouth. Sure cups is sketchy every now and then but i have never consistently tasted like roasted feet as much as when i got coffee at brood street. There are awards from community coffee but it must just be because they buy so much of it from them.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-22T17:10:37-06:00

ID

87659

Comment

If anything, we have proven that there is no monolithic taste in coffee. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T17:12:19-06:00

ID

87660

Comment

RE: the gentrification issue- I'm not so sure that all the upcoming developments downtown will be upper-income-only, at least initially. As a part of the Katrina relief bill, MS was allocated $37 million worth of addition low income housing tax credits, in addition to the usual allocation of around $15 or so. I think that developers will take advantage of this powerful financing tool and keep a certain percent of the housing units affordable for the present time. Tax credits were used to fund a lot of the residential development in dowtown Memphis. For projects that use tax credit financing, a certain percentage of the units must be rented to low-to-moderate income households for at least 15 years. After 15 years, the developer can rent to whomever, or sell the units (this is what is happening in Memphis now: most of the tax credit apartments are being converted to high-priced condos).

Author

Justin

Date

2006-02-22T17:29:35-06:00

ID

87661

Comment

Also, Bailey is already designated as a MS historic landmark. So, the Dept. of Archives and History would have to approve demolition of the school, I think.

Author

Justin

Date

2006-02-22T17:31:37-06:00

ID

87662

Comment

I understood that the school is not going anywhere, just building up around it.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-02-22T17:33:23-06:00

ID

87663

Comment

I think this whole conversation is GREAT, just to debate pros and cons and intentionally PLAN a community rather than, as Donna points out, letting national businesses take everyone off guard. Even when it comes down to figuring out which coffee smells like feet. ;-) Also to Kate, thanks for the news on the Farmer's Market, I am really excited about that--locally grown produce, hooray

Author

Izzy

Date

2006-02-22T17:39:47-06:00

ID

87664

Comment

For projects that use tax credit financing, a certain percentage of the units must be rented to low-to-moderate income households for at least 15 years. After 15 years, the developer can rent to whomever, or sell the units (this is what is happening in Memphis now: most of the tax credit apartments are being converted to high-priced condos). That's a good start. I think there need to be affordable home buying opportunities as well as affordable rental housing. Both are needed. So in such developments are the affordable units mixed in with the market-rate stuff? There are supposedly a lot of advantages to mixed-income neighborhoods and developments, but I don't know a lot about how people make them happen.

Author

Mark Michalovic

Date

2006-02-22T17:45:19-06:00

ID

87665

Comment

Also I wonder what happens to the low-income residents after fifteen years...

Author

Mark Michalovic

Date

2006-02-22T17:52:46-06:00

ID

87666

Comment

Dear Lord I love a Farmer's Market. I really do. I can inhale raw vegetables from twenty feet away while holding one nostril closed with a pinky finger. But, I probably shouldn't advertise that on a public forum. (Random nerdy comment for the day: Did you know raw vegetables help you metabolize cortisol(the human stress hormone)? They actually help DE-stress you if eaten regularly. If eaten after a particularly stressful event they can even help calm you down.) Thanks for the update kate! Haven't been seeing as much of you around here as I would like. I'm loving the different coffee opinions. As stupid as it sounds, it just goes to show how different everyone is....even though a lot of us on here often get lumped into the same category at times. I like stuff like that. 'Course, I'm a nerd. Its making me want to start a thread where all we do is talk about our favorite food and why. You know, the Bailey area is part of the Midtown community (depends on who draws the lines) and I have a soft spot in my heart for that community in general because of a certain man that works in the community center there. (And there's nothing sexyouall to that. He's just a great person in general and should be an inspiration to everyone else in this town....I'll stop gushing now) I would LOVE to get him to weigh in on what that community needs. As most of you have probably discovered, I find the people that SHOULD be making the decisions regarding community planning often have little to nothing to actually do with it.

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-02-22T17:58:19-06:00

ID

87667

Comment

Mark Michalovic writes: That's a good start. I think there need to be affordable home buying opportunities as well as affordable rental housing. Both are needed. Oh, HELL yes. That, I think, is the secret to building solid residential neighborhoods: Ownership, where folks have power and a long-term investment in the community. Show me a city where everybody has the option of owning property and I'll show you a city with almost no crime. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-22T18:06:58-06:00

ID

87668

Comment

And Ali, agreed that he's a downright awesome dude. As evidenced by the fact that I know exactly who you're talking about even though you never actually gave his name. :P Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-02-22T18:08:04-06:00

ID

87669

Comment

Kate, you ought to come get my butt and take me to the FArmer's Market Saturday. Just not too early. I don't hang with chickens. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-02-22T19:18:10-06:00

ID

87670

Comment

Oh, HELL yes. That, I think, is the secret to building solid residential neighborhoods: Ownership, where folks have power and a long-term investment in the community. Exactly. Homeowners work to protect their investments, even if the investment is just in a modest starter home in a working-class neighborhood. I'd even gather a guess that the first-time owner of a small house might be extra keen to protect his or her investment in a home and neighborhood if it's all the wealth he or she really has. I think new urbanism and affordable home ownership can and should go hand in hand. Like I said earlier, modest houses on small pieces of land can be a good way to make homes affordable. That said, I'm not sure market forces alone will make this dream a reality, as developers go after the fatter profit margins of upscale housing. But that has little to do with new urbanism. Suburban sprawl developers these days tend to focus on high-end McMansions rather than ranch-style starter homes. I'm not sure what incentives will get the developers who will rebuild urban Jackson to include affordable homes for sale in their plans, but if anyone knows of something that has worked somewhere else, I'd be all for it. (And I'm all for farmer's markets, too. We have one here in West Philly where city folks can buy great bread and produce straight from Amish farmers. I love it!)

Author

Mark Michalovic

Date

2006-02-22T21:31:13-06:00

ID

87671

Comment

Amish Farmer's Market sounds freakin' awesome. Donna, happy to cart you over to the Farmer's Market. I'll even bring you some coffee. We've got a whole thing planned, with the Farmer's Market and the ever-fabulous Gem and Mineral Show over at the Fairgrounds. And *SuperStar*, I'm with you on Community Coffee.

Author

kate

Date

2006-02-23T16:59:13-06:00

ID

87672

Comment

Hey Justin, is there a good source online documenting that process as it occurred in Memphis? Is the program administered locally or is it federal? Also, are those tax credits available for renovation or existing homes or just new development?

Author

Niles Hooper

Date

2006-02-23T17:32:56-06:00

ID

87673

Comment

L.W. sorry to get nto this so late. Bailey Magnate is on the National Register now. It was designed by Overstreet and Ware way back in the 30's. They are the firm that did the Plaza. It was the first poured in place concrete structure in the United States. It's solid concrete. When we are all dead and gone. I mean after the next ice age. It will be there. It will look like Xumal in Yucatan but it will be there. It ain't going anywhere. I suppose they are talking about all the land areound it which is prime.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-02-27T19:51:02-06:00

ID

87674

Comment

Justin and ATL, thanks. Gladto know that my neighbor's alma mater will still be intact.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-02-27T22:04:42-06:00

ID

87675

Comment

http://home.millsaps.edu/beckea/buildings.html Its big, its concrete, uhhhh..... its cool i guess. Mark, I agree, in fact, think how much we would have lost at saps if everyone had to go to ridgeland to rent........ RNH.

Author

Niles Hooper

Date

2006-02-27T22:38:13-06:00

ID

87676

Comment

Niles- I'm not sure there's website on Memphis's story or not. I'm speaking just of what I observed and heard about while living there. The low-income housing tax credits are provided by the IRS but are administered at the state level. The program works like this: Tax credits are allocated to state agencies based on the state's population. Developers then are eligible for these credits through a competitive bidding process in which the state agency ranks projects according to state housing goals. The tax credit is worth 9% of the project's eligible development cost. The developer then sells these credits to investors. The purchase price is the project’s equity, paid to the developer. The investor, in return, receives tax credits worth 9% of the project’s cost each year for ten years. The purchase price of the credits varies from project to project, reflecting differing degrees of risk. To qualify for tax credits, developers must rent 20% of the units at a particular property to households earning 50% or less of the area median income, or at least 40% of the units to households earning less than 60% of the area median income. Additionally, to qualify for the credit, the units must remain in service to low-income households for at least 15 years. The credits can be used for new construction or renovation, but in Jackson they've been used almost exclusively for new construction. This is unfortunate given the large number of vacant and dilapidated buildings in the city that could be renovated. Some states give more "points" to renovation projects in the bidding process to encourage this type redevelopment.

Author

Justin

Date

2006-02-27T22:55:56-06:00

ID

87677

Comment

Just happened to look here and saw that the Old Capitol Green bill died in the House... This happened over a month ago, and I never heard anything about it. The C-L's mention of it came in a little sidebar and an op/ed piece (which I tend to skip unless the headline catches my eye).

Author

millhouse

Date

2006-03-31T19:17:29-06:00

ID

87678

Comment

Just happened to look here and saw that the Old Capitol Green bill died in the House... Rats. I see the Medicaid bill kicked the bucket too. Well, at least the breastfeeding bill is still alive.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-03-31T23:33:44-06:00

ID

87679

Comment

Sounds like both of these projects have garnered quite a bit of interest from developers, according to today's C-L. Also: "Rep. John Reeves, R-Jackson, said the proposals could help fuel development that eventually could include a westward expansion of the University of Mississippi Medical Center onto land occupied by Mississippi Veterans Memorial Stadium. Reeves said the old stadium could be demolished and replaced in the next few years." WTF?? Haven't they already spent a ton of money renovating this stadium??

Author

millhouse

Date

2006-04-09T12:34:15-06:00

ID

87680

Comment

Improve the neighborhood and earn money for JPS?.. Sounds good to me.

Author

Kendrick Johnson

Date

2006-09-26T23:10:30-06:00