Ellington

This seems obvious, but it is worth considering. This seems obvious, but it is worth considering, per Salon:

When Michigan Senator Carl Levin makes statements supporting a bailout for U.S. automakers, he is generally dismissed as a spokesperson for his constituents -- Michigan, of course, is ground zero for the Big Three. No state in the union employs more auto workers. So how come Richard Shelby, R-Ala., doesn't get the same treatment? In Congress, Shelby is the most outspoken opponent of a bailout, routinely declaring that the Big Three are "dinosaurs." But if there was truth in advertising, every time he opens his mouth there should be a disclaimer: Senator Shelby represents the interests of his constituents -- non-union employees of foreign-owned automobile manufacturers.

Alabama ranks sixth on the list of states with the most auto workers -- by last count 130,000 jobs directly or indirectly depended on the auto industry. Hyundai, Honda and Mercedes-Benz all have state-of-the-art plants in Alabama, producing, among other things, the kind of low gas-mileage luxury sport utility vehicles that most U.S. consumers are currently reluctant to buy. [...]

Alabama's story is part of the larger narrative of the New South's emergence as a industrial playground for foreign manufacturers, eager to exploit non-union labor -- but still paying better wages than most local industries, thus partially insulating them from the threat of union organizers. It's a narrative that is going to come into clear focus during the next four years, if President-Elect Barack Obama attempts to carry through on his promises to organized labor. Standing against him will be a phalanx of Southern Republican Senators, led by Richard Shelby, opposing him not just on ideological grounds, but motivated also by clear financial incentives.

Previous Comments

ID

140857

Comment

Interesting, but I bet they will never mention or tell the complete truth to their constituents concerning their financial interest in taking said position, to the detriment of American created and sustained companies. This could make them look less concerned about American interest than they claim. They will instead find some phony means of connecting conservative values, free markek principles, privitization, small government, fiscal responsibility, states rights, Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, Ronald Reagan, the Civil War, Blacks taking over, etc., to explain their actions or positions. I don't see how any of these even tangentially apllies, excepting the free market argument, to the matter before hand. However, it's clear down south that the use of any of these, especially the later ones, will blind the average white southerner from any other truth mentioned or so plainly obvious to anyone. I do agree that the big three needs to build cars/vehicles that compete with the foreign automakers, else suffer the consequences their failures bring about. If we're going to save AIG why not save the big three too. Since we've now seen who the real socialists are, no matter the pronouncements to the contrary and lies about Obama, why not just save everybody for now, and unite as one Democratic party behind the high-stepping mules and bring this country back to where it was before the republicans went crazy and damn near thieved and sold us into bankruptcy.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-19T12:36:07-06:00

ID

140859

Comment

I wonder where Haley Barbour is on this issue. It will be interesting to watch his political strategy amidst the Obama Plan for America. I'm with you Walt: and Will the real socialist please stand up?

Author

justjess

Date

2008-11-19T12:54:58-06:00

ID

140860

Comment

Additionally, Justjess what kind of somamaitch would look out for foreign interest while trying his best to destroy American interest. President Lyndon Baines Johnson would exit his grave if he could upon hearing this. This is as repugnant to me as Mr. Shelby deciding to support the taliban or Al and Kiter (hoewever you spell it) instead of American soldiers. And all it likely took the get Mr. Shelby to do this was a little change under the table plus a few low-wage jobs in his district. How about we be Americans and look out for the best interest of everyone like Obama is promising and the Democrats have perfectred as a political purpose or creed. If I'm not mistaken Mercedes Benz in Alabama suffered many lay off not long ago. I'm wondering if it's now about time the south is thrown out of the union. I doubt they would put up much of a fight right now with Obama as the president elect.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-19T13:26:13-06:00

ID

140866

Comment

It is looking increasingly like the feds aren't going to help the auto industry in Detroit. It'so sad to watch this happen. Hopefully, they'll at least send the Detroit Lions some help because at 0 and 10 it's looking more like they will go 0 and 16 and soon replace the Saints as the sorriest team in the history of pro sports.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-19T15:49:46-06:00

ID

140867

Comment

As I think about this, how much more can Detroit take? The mayor is gone to jail for lying and getting caught (an unskilled Democrat), the auto industry is going under for incompetence in the face of foreign competition, the Lions can't defeat their practice squad, Motown records long packed up for California. Unless we do something to help Detroit crime is going to get even worse. Obama will recognize this and once in office will save the place from total collapse. Detroit has too great a history to suffer all this fallout.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-19T16:01:53-06:00

ID

140872

Comment

Why should other states subsidize the inflated union wages and benefits of Detroit automakers? Poor business decisions are coming back to haunt them.

Author

QB

Date

2008-11-19T17:52:08-06:00

ID

140873

Comment

BTW, the Saints have never gone 0-16. The Bucs have.

Author

QB

Date

2008-11-19T17:52:47-06:00

ID

140876

Comment

BTW, the Saints have never gone 0-16. The Bucs have. No true. They went 0-14, when the NFL was 14 games. Anyhow, while I have been apprehensive about supporting the bailout of financial companies, I'm a little more supportive of helping the automotive industry. Millions of jobs are at stake with that. I will say, though, that the Big 3 dug their own hole by not keeping up with the Japanese.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-11-19T20:00:49-06:00

ID

140879

Comment

The Big 3 don't deserve a federal bailout, but they probably will get one once the new Congress and new administration take over.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-11-20T08:13:31-06:00

ID

140880

Comment

Hey Guys and Gals, In my opinion the big three don't really want a bailout. In my opinion they want to be pushed into "reorganizational" bankruptcy, which will allow them to begin the process of dumping their pensioners and their associated health care costs...similiar to what the airlines initiated. Strangely enough the "cure" for the automakers, Boeing and other American industries that compete internationally could be a universal, single payer, private provider health system. The United States is the only industrialized country that has businesses footing the cost of health care on their balance and income sheets. Check this out! http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=897&Itemid=1

Author

FrankMickens

Date

2008-11-20T09:12:43-06:00

ID

140882

Comment

Hey Again... Remember the airlines 15 billion dollar bailout after 911? It wasn't pretty http://www.alternet.org/911oneyearlater/11754/ouch!:the_airline_bailout/

Author

FrankMickens

Date

2008-11-20T09:18:44-06:00

ID

140883

Comment

More of the same http://www.alternet.org/911oneyearlater/11733/united's_bailout_rip-off/

Author

FrankMickens

Date

2008-11-20T09:21:09-06:00

ID

140884

Comment

Last but not least http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C01E6DA1F3DF932A3575BC0A9629C8B63

Author

FrankMickens

Date

2008-11-20T09:23:14-06:00

ID

140886

Comment

What I don't understand is why anyone supports it. How long are we going to prop up failure and expect people to change their ways? Is a message of complete unaccountability what we really want to re-enforce? That companies can make bad decision after bad decision and WE, the taxpayers, will pick up the tab? It's not entirely their fault though. U.S. automakers have been required to do so much beyond make autos that they are being crushed under the weight of providing for a whole host of things besides cars and trucks. Add those social concerns to the mix, throw in some poor management and you have the recipe for corporate bankruptcy. The auto makers and the unions have made their beds and now they want everyone else to save them from reaping what they have sown. I ask again why would anyone support it?

Author

WMartin

Date

2008-11-20T09:49:11-06:00

ID

140887

Comment

Why try to save the republican party? They aren't any good whatsoever! In contrast, losing the big 3 will cause many people to lose jobs and suffer financial distress. And there ain't no telling how it will effect the national economy. I bet everyone opposing the bailout would feel differently if they worked there or was personally affected in some manner. Why do we have to be personally involved to have the necessary compassion for other. I can live with letting AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Joe and all the rest fail too, if that the position being taken, but I'm against saving a select few and letting other significant companies or institutions fall by the wayside. The big 3 have impacted America in great ways for many decades.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-20T10:06:44-06:00

ID

140891

Comment

The reason why some form of assistance should be considered is that if confidence in our economy craters it will be DEVASTATING. This is bigger than the big 3 or revenge issues. The Big 3 do not stand alone. If they go bankrupt, that will be evident. It will have a devastating effect on credit markets and the stock market (a cheap form of credit). I wonder why it is that if this is the fault of unions, then why aren't other countries with even stronger unions seeing all of their companies in such bad shape due to unions? Are Volvo or Volkswagon going bankrupt? I do believe that they both deal with organized labor. This union bashing is no different from blaming poor people getting loans for the credit crisis. It seems like scapegoating to me. You blame the workers but not the executives who got billions of dollars in bonuses while the companies were run into the ground with bad business decisions.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-11-20T11:42:23-06:00

ID

140892

Comment

Sho' you right, Whitley.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-20T11:49:11-06:00

ID

140893

Comment

Bankruptcy for the auto industry is fundamentally different than in financial services. The auto industry has fixed assets that are salvageable, whereas the financial sector has a bunch of bad debt and deliberately obfuscated counter-party risk. If GM goes bankrupt, you have the plans, the labor force, the dealer network and the brand (hah). The unions will be forced to come to a settlement with the new ownership and the govt will have to pick up a huge tab for pensioners. But wait! Detroit isnt the whole US auto industry. The downstream components can shift to support OTHER car manufacturers than GM/Ford. There are tons of multinational companies making cars in your backyard (Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, Benz, etc). The auto-industry doesn't die. It just goes through a paradigm shift (ie. a geographic, financial and a demographic shift-efficient cars). If Citi goes bankrupt, it gets split into sections and other banks (domestic and intl) carve it up, leaving the fat (up to $1 T in debt). So what happens with this? Equity goes to zero, and whoever loaned money to citi has almost a total loss on it (includes the govt and other banks). So what does that mean, other banks collapse and the dominoes fall. Soon, rather than credit being tight, it becomes nonexistent. This means that manufacturing and retail can't keep open a line of credit to buy new inventory (which they will later sell) and go out of business. The only companies that can stay afloat produce enough internal cash flow to cover new purchases. The rest are stuck at soup kitchens. And this is why the banks get bailed out and the auto industry doesn't.

Author

Harper

Date

2008-11-20T11:51:28-06:00

ID

140894

Comment

For a minute Harper I thought you were making a case for saving the auto industry as well. In terms of personal antipathy which in part is driving the feud on this, I'd like to see banks or financial institutions fail. Those no good jokers take advantage of the poor, reward those who don't need them, and raise rates on people often quite unjustifiably. I'm willing to suffer too just to see banks, gas and oil companies, utilitty companies and the likes suffer more or go out of business temporarily. LOL. If we're going to suffer a financial collapse, let's have it in the next 60 days so as to make sure the blame goes where it should.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-20T12:10:09-06:00

ID

140895

Comment

I agree --- to some extent. The odds of devastation are not quite as certain with a big 3 bankruptcy as with the bank crisis. I do not believe it will be as tidy as you describe though. If GM and Crysler go down for the standing 8 count, the lasting damage will be, not so much from the proximate disruption for those immediately connected to the auto industry, but in the disruption in foreign investor confidence in U.S. equities. You will be able to almost hear the sucking sound of foreign investors shifting their money away from U.S. equities. The damage to investor confidence is the larger great white shark trailing this floundering economy. If it sinks its teeth in...You betcha.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-11-20T12:11:17-06:00

ID

140896

Comment

Walt, that sounds like an economic collapse we could believe in. ha ha.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-11-20T12:15:16-06:00

ID

140897

Comment

Volkswagen employees in Germany are arguably one of the strongest unions in the world http://www.automotiveworld.com/VMSI/display.asp?contentid=70434&vmsiid=15 --- yet Volkswagen is also in good financial condition compared to some of its less unionized competitors. Volkswagen is rumored as a possible buyer of GM. The bottom line is that their executives have made good decisions. They make good products that people want to buy. Union bashing is a reactionary answer to a strategic problem.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-11-20T12:22:54-06:00

ID

140901

Comment

Congress told the Big Begging Three they will see them in December and to have a "business plan" by then if they expect to get some help from them, according to MSNBC and my on the scene reporters, Leroy, Hubcaps and Big Sexy. If I were them I'd ride over the next time in a nearly broke down Ford, Chrysler and GM vehicle. Upon leaving the romm the Ford exec asked if they need to bring someone from the Detroit Lions too in December.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-20T14:35:22-06:00

ID

140903

Comment

I don't think it's Union bashing to say they've made some mistakes. I believe in organized labor. The Unions would obviously say they didn't do anything other than negotiate with management to come to terms they could both agree upon. But it's obvious that the respective companies we are talking about can't live up to the obligations they made in the face of shrinking market share and ,more recently, an overall shrinking market. They are not competitive, I think we all agree on that. Why aren't they competitive? Why are we making it easier and cheaper to move an entire industry out of the country than to do business here. If a company can get foreign labor cheaper to do the same job they would be remiss in their duty to their stockholders to not make the best decision for the company. The Unions are making a mistake not to recognize that fact and take a look at what they ask for. We have, as consumers, the right to spend our money where we choose. We could vote with our dollars and support those company's decisions to make those agreements with the Unions. We haven't done it collectively, as consumers, what makes it a good idea to do it with our tax dollars? I only own domestic cars for this reason. What's in your driveway?

Author

WMartin

Date

2008-11-20T14:44:38-06:00

ID

140905

Comment

I drive a Nissan Wmartin! Doggone gotcha politics! I believe in buying local, but I have been giving thought to buying a fine American made vehicle if they still exist when I decide to let go of my 8 year-old Nissan Frontier another 100,000 miles or so from now. It is still going good after 150,000 plus miles and all I've had to do is replace an alternator just this year. I don't want to put union bashing on you, I am just echoing the cry of the Republican talking heads like Coulter and Limbaugh. They want to destroy the unions who helped Barack get elected. The far right wingnuts would like to destroy the big 3 and their unions, sink the economy in Michigan and then turn around and blame Obama. They truly hate our freedoms such as the right to assemble together in a union to get better wages and working conditions. You don't need a crystal ball. It is like figuring out what babies will do. They are not the smartest people. They want to sabotage the economy. The auto industry is 4% of GDP. Robert Samuelson, a Newsweek economist and author of economics textbooks, states in their latest issue that at least 2.5 million jobs would be lost if GM went under. and that: *Confidence among small businesses has dropped to a 28-year low...all U.S.-based manufacturers would suffer crippling parts shortages...until new supplier arrangements emerged...Even in reorganization, GM would require new loans and these might not be available...no loans, no production. Another possible pitfall: worried about warranties and service, customers might shun a bankrupt GM's vehicles...In 1979, when it rescued Chrysler...the Carter administration insisted on consessions from management, investors and labor. We should do as much or more.* I agree. Management should have to commit to a green strategy and should not lobby against healthcare reform and the unions should do what is reasonable to keep jobs in America. Hopefully, cool heads will prevail while there is still time to prevent the loss of millions of jobs. In that situation we will still end up paying due to the social costs of unemployment and social unraveling.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-11-20T15:37:57-06:00

ID

140906

Comment

Wmartin you might want to listen to a Democrat. "We're moving on up to the eastside. We finally got a piece of the pie." And, "Don't believe the hype" from Coulter nem. "You can't trust" them.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-20T15:42:41-06:00

ID

140909

Comment

My wife is a member of the local UFCW and they have done a great job. The grocery store chain she works for is thriving in a very competitive market with a very tight profit margin. I like to think I listen to everybody Walt. Everyone with a reasonable view anyway, which to me doesn't include Rush, Ann Coulter or especially Sean "The Antichrist" Hannity, that dude gives me the creeps. The Eastside? You are moving to Rankin County? Say it ain't so!

Author

WMartin

Date

2008-11-20T17:43:20-06:00

ID

140911

Comment

WMartin, I was singing the theme song to the Jefferson once George and Weezie got enough money to move to a better part of town. Just having fun.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-20T17:53:03-06:00

ID

140913

Comment

That's cool, but it ain't no place for a southern boy cuz fish don't fry in the kitchen.

Author

WMartin

Date

2008-11-20T18:06:02-06:00

ID

140947

Comment

Now Citigroup is wanting some help from us. If Whitley Houston and Amy Winehouse can resort to crack helpers in this time of crisis, I say e let banks crash or go out of business.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-11-24T08:54:27-06:00

ID

140952

Comment

If Citigroup is getting a gub'mint bailout, which includes my federal income taxes, I think I should consider that my credit card payment for the month!

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-11-24T10:43:17-06:00