Ellington

Politics sucks! More so, politicians suck! Around these parts, the whole damn lot of you should be ashamed. This is a wake-up call to everyone serving in public office in this city: the ones I support and the ones I criticize, the ones I consider allies and the ones I think stand in the way of progress.

I'm on the side of right, fairness and common sense. Most of all, I'm for forward thinking, and right now, Jackson is stagnant.

To most people, city government seems as if it's being run by some secret society. Full disclosure seems to be a concept lost on this administration, and many good, law-abiding voters have lost trust in the city's ability to protect their best interests.

I have supported the mayor and still feel he can make the best of this whirlwind tenure. I believe his outreach to youth is needed. However, I can understand why some folks have lost faith in him as a politician. He can't continue to act as if he can operate with impunity and not have detractors.

As a body, the City Council is spineless. Collectively, they have been punked. There is nothing wrong with telling someone you respect, even love, that they are wrong. That's what separates someone who genuinely respects you from someone who's just there to benefit from your power.

Disagreement fosters discussion. Discussion fosters solutions. Solutions solve problems. As a public official, if you're scared to publicly disagree with a friend, you're doing us all a disservice. The one person on the council who is most vocally defiant is not often not taken seriously because he hasn't done the best job of masking the fact that he, too, wants to be mayor.

Because of all the B.S., every move made by this administration is being sifted with a fine-toothed comb. The second chances folks like Louis Armstrong or Anthony Staffney are given are controversial because those actions appear duplicitous to the public. Likewise, young leaders like Marcus Ward, and most recently Charles Melvin, deserve the opportunity to prove their value to the city.

But because the city is not informing the public, it looks downright shady. Having a resume is one thing, but a councilman publicly saying a man doesn't have the "ability" to do a job is irresponsible and speaks directly to my problem with the whole machine. I hate to burst your bubble, but outside of police and the fire chief, any educated man or woman with a degree and a couple days to kill in an orientation class could do some of those jobs. Agree or not, I always choose young blood!

I'm of the opinion that when you make personnel moves, you damn well better tell us what's going on. And, the folks who are put in those positions damn well better do the job.

All of you, from the mayor's office down to Public Works, heed these words. We're tired of feeling like we're getting screwed, and you didn't even take us out to dinner first.

And that's the truth ... sho-nuff!

Previous Comments

ID

74333

Comment

What happened to all my cuss words LOL...Seriously though, my intent is to hurt SOMEBODY's feelings or shame somebody into growing a backbone.Somebody Anybody. the mayor, the council, the city hall janitor, somebody... Im ashamed to even watch this sometimes.. and that fiasco in that meeting yesterday....Im speechless.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-07T16:09:55-06:00

ID

74334

Comment

Good one, Kaze. Glad we're on the same team.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T16:36:07-06:00

ID

74335

Comment

"Likewise, young leaders like Marcus Ward, and most recently Charles Melvin, deserve the opportunity to prove their value to the city." I don’t agree with your assumption that Ward and Melvin are “leaders”. The two take orders from the mayor. They’re role in city government has been counter to one of the arguments you make in your column. "There is nothing wrong with telling someone you respect, even love, that they are wrong. That’s what separates someone who genuinely respects you from someone who’s just there to benefit from your power." Nothing in there past (and we are going on two years of Melton administration) suggests that they are willing to stand up to power. But you in turn criticize the four city councilman who are taking a stand against the mayor and most recently, his appointment of Melvin to head the department of Parks and Recreation. I’m sorry, but I don’t believe just anyone off the street should be placed in charge of a 6.6 million dollar budget. And being a “good athlete” does not qualify you to run that department.

Author

jd

Date

2007-02-07T16:46:20-06:00

ID

74336

Comment

Kaza, you are as full of crap as frank. I am saying this because of the statement you made about " I have supported the mayor and still feel that.....His outreach to youth is needed." You are like so many people who supported melton: You talk out of both sides of your mouuth. This type of behavior makes you a part of the problem. It is neither easy or simple to run a City the size and complexity of Jackson; although, melton boasted that he could run the entire City of Jackson all by himself. This speaks to everything that has happened and it also addresses your lack of understanding the need for certain training and experience in doing certain jobs. I have jacked your a$$ up several times about this very thing. You can't have it both ways and there is no way to unring franks bell. Just in case you don't read any of the other links in the JFP other than your own, frank melton had youngsters with him when he committed the crime of tearing down someone's property and youngsters were also with him and assisted in beating a tax paying citizen ofJackson at the Upper Level. Your attempt to be humorous at you closingstatement does not shade the fact that this frank issue with you is far from being settled. The smart thing to do, in my opinion, is to say nothing on this issue. Many of the people who blog here are much too smart to not hear a rat when he has pi$$es on cotton in China. Translation: Where I'm from we call this "sucking up." If you are truly concered about the welfare of the City of Jackson, cease and desist from writing these dichotomous articles and ask your idol to resign.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-07T16:58:13-06:00

ID

74337

Comment

Actually, on that point, I do disagree with Kamikaze. Those jobs are too imporant too learn on the job, and I believe you're downplaying what is needed to develop leadership skills. However, you can be forgiven for that, while the mayor cannot. And amen on the "good athlete" comment, Jay. I still like the column overall, though. Certainly, Council hasn't done enough to respond to the administration's shenanigans. However, they takes no responsibility away from the mayor for causing all these shenanigans. He clearly has little sense of hiring good people.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T16:58:40-06:00

ID

74338

Comment

OK, justjess has a good point, too. (Chipping away here. Sorry.) Outreach is needed to youth—but not the way Melton has done it. He puts young people in positions in which they'll fail, he gets them to commit crimes allegedly, he sets a terrible example by lying and threatening his enemies, he makes them believe they they, too, can be above the law ... his type of "outreach" is NOT needed.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T17:01:06-06:00

ID

74339

Comment

Kaze, Justjess, has a great point, doesn't she? What's up? Can you say concede?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-07T17:06:15-06:00

ID

74340

Comment

Amen, JUSTJESS! What sense does it make to remove a person with proven experience and measured accomplishments and replace them with a "young blood"? This is INSANE!

Author

Fitz

Date

2007-02-07T17:09:09-06:00

ID

74341

Comment

oooh wee. I couldnt WAIT to get back to a computer! First of all Justjess..in the immortal words of Jay-Z, allow me to reintroduce myself..my name is KAMIKAZE. Never sell out! Don't kiss a--, and I suck up to man or woman(except my son and daughter:-)) I have read your posts for months now and have long since stopped giving any credence to your remarks. Why? Because you made it clear in MANY previous topics that YOUR idol is Harvey Johnson! you hate he lost. You hate that Frank beat him. You hate that he was inept and sucked just as bad! Even before all these problems arose you made these same statements. In my opinion, not because YOU really care but because YOU like Harvey and wish him to return to office. Therefore your comments hold no weight with me cuz you're biased!!! you sound just like those far-right fanatics that call Kim's show blaming Democrats for everything. They are so partisan that they don't even realize that EVERYBODY'S screwing up across the board. One caller called in and even said if folks would "just stop voting for Democrats" the world would be better. Nope thats not the answer. Adversly, Removing the mayor from office is not going to solve Jackson's problem and I swear on all that is good and holy returning Harvey johnson to ofc isnt the answer either. See Im progressive enough to see past my own personal feelings to see the greater good. I STILL, regardless what anyone says feel like the mayor's attention to our youth is needed. And I STILL choose youngblood EVERYTIME. my choice! Im not saying take anyoone off the street but if you read my column ma'am you'll see i said anyone with a degree and a few minutes to kill in an orientation class could do em. I could do em! YOU could do em. Sorry. there's not a job in city government right now save for Police or Fire Chief that I couldnt do. Ya'll giving way to much credence to it in my opinion but regardless I will hold my ground.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-07T18:05:18-06:00

ID

74342

Comment

So in the end..try taking YOUR head out of Harvey's backside. and quit acting like the simple removal of the mayor is the magic pill that Jackson needs. Just like the immediate removal of George W won't immediately solve America's problems. It's not! Im just as fed up as you are and just as embarrased at all these antics. Read my column a little more closely before you mayor-bash. truth be told, unlike most of the folks around him, I can tell him to his face when he's f--k-n up and this is one of those times. But im also smart enough to know that if he were to disappear tomorrow Jackson's problems would still be here. Concede Ray? PLEASE. Refer back to my first statement you know my name! :-) And I read a LOT of other links than my own and comment too. But where you lose your credibility is your OBSESSION to get rid of the mayor and yoou can't make a comment without interjecting it in somewhere most of the time. (Not ALL of the time just but MOST of the time) you have not now or EVER "jacked me up" reserve the self horn-tooting for another guy. I will comment on any issue I wish. This column alone shows that I know something is afoul. And just my understanding goes FAAAR beyond your comprehension so back up with that. If you want to discuss, then let's, but for now your comments hold no weight with me. Now Ray or Donna if we may let's continue the discussion because as I said discussion brings solutions.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-07T18:21:43-06:00

ID

74343

Comment

Please, Kaze. You can disagree, but JustJess does not sound like a fanatic. It is idiotic to put "young blood" in over their heads -- that's a recipe for failure. That would be like us taking Casey when she was 19, and having her do my job, instead of putting her in a job with a great deal of authority and be mentored and then be promoted to assistant editor and so on. You're sounding really silly right now with all the Harvey crap. Try to address her actual concerns rather than changing the subject. You're taking an ad hominen approach, and it adds nothing. You can do better. We've seen it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T18:21:54-06:00

ID

74344

Comment

And removing Melton from office would solve one very bad problem: inept leadership from the top down.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T18:22:22-06:00

ID

74345

Comment

That's not crap Donna..just calling em like I see em. Nothing less. Ill bow out. I was all for healthy discussion but not at the expense of THOSE comments which you did not comment on...just mine. "suck up" is where I lose my cool. Partially because I know where her comments come from. ..And I addressed her concerns. Easily. Frankly Ive said my peace on that particular comment. I was a managing editor at the Jackson Advocate at 22. Had 3 reporters under me. Started my first non-profit at 23. Was program director at my own radio show when I was 25. And vice-president of marketing for a soul-food restaurant chain in ATL after I left AP at 27. Plenty of "youngblood" could get the job done if folks would move the hell out of the way. But the excuse is always "You arent experienced enough" Cmon I could be doing Ronnie Agnew's job if given the chance. Could have done it at 25. Now I may just be a new breed or cut from different stock. But its just not as hard as you try to make it. may sound crazy but thats me.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-07T18:34:56-06:00

ID

74346

Comment

...And BTW she DOES sound like a fanatic. Sad part is. We're basically on the same page. Im just more towards the center. ..was gonna bring up the Barak issue and the fact that the naysayers say HE isnt experienced enough BUT that would really get off the basis of the column. To get a spine on someone, somewhere in the city. The whole machine needs to be purged and we need to start over. See...I can be cordial.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-07T18:39:00-06:00

ID

74347

Comment

oh and one more thing...(Im just realizing that im pissed so I wont continue to type in anger). I don't agree with utterly REMOVING someone from a position. that's not fair either. if it was open and then some youngblood was appointed Im all for that. Now I would be remiss in not mentioning that under Ford's tenure there appeared to be a huge biased against the community centers located in "black" neighborhoods i.e Jayne Ave as opposed to ones such as Parham Bridges. I had a problem with that but never would wish him or anyone to LOSE a job.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-07T18:47:18-06:00

ID

74348

Comment

Hey you didn't manage the Chicken and Waffles over on Ponce did you? Just looking at their website, I'm glad to see they opened up downtown because the location on Ponce closed so quick. That was some good stuff!

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-07T19:41:02-06:00

ID

74349

Comment

Kamikaze, you are talking to one of the biggest supporters of giving "youngblood" lots of authority and opportunity. However, I'm not fool enough to argue that Melvin is qualified to run the Parks & Rec department. It's that simple. Marcus Ward wasn't qualified to be the city's lobbyist, either, and he's not anymore. And we probably lost money in the interim. A true leader gives people opportunities but doesn't throw people in over their heads so they will end up worse off. Melton does that all the time. As for jess' comments, the only one that seemed over the top was saying you were full of crap. But I didn't think that would bother you particularly, or I would have called it out. But your response to her was near nonsensical, accusing her of all the Harvey stuff because she called you out on your very public support of Melton. The truth is, this column sounds like you're caught in the middle, and is a bit dichotomous. I actually think it's a good sign, and I see what you're doing. But her points challenging you were very strong, and you didn't answer them. And I have no doubt that you would do as good a job as Ronnie Agnew. Or Grace Simmons. But I think you should aspire to a higher bar. And you actually have journalism experience—unlike Melvin, who has no experience doing what Melton is hiring him to do. I do not believe that you would do a great job running Parks & Rec, for the record. I wouldn't, either, and I'm a sharp cookie just like you are. Setting young people up to fail is no favor to them. Truthfully, Melvin would turn the job down if he was smart. He ought not go down with the Titanic. He will have a brighter future in Jackson if he limits himself to a job that he has some level of experience in—but I'm sure Melton is ignorantly telling him he won't have any trouble because he's a good athlete, or some such bullsh!t.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T22:14:29-06:00

ID

74350

Comment

Justjess also brings up another interesting point: If you approve of Melton's "outreach" to young people, what do you think about him directing minors to sledgehammer the home of Evans Welch (and Jennifer Sutton)? There is nothing fanatical about that question.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-07T22:16:16-06:00

ID

74351

Comment

OMG Donna her points were not strong! But cool. Ive been watching her posts since the mayor got in office and finally had enough. My response made plenty of sense cuz Ive kept track of her comments and their content. Ive never come at you, Ray, or anyone else that disagreed with me have I? NO! Im calling her out on that premise and that one alone. The full of crap line is cool, I hear that at some point everyday, but "suck up" tore my britches! And the fact that you primarily agree with her is why you didnt call it out. And that's cool too. not trippin. Granted in more recent years, my views are going more towards the middle. As Ive matured, had kids, been in my business for some 10 odd-years Im not the far-left soldier that I once was. Im more middle of the road now. And just because Im not calling for the mayor's head on a platter doesnt mean I don't see we have a problem here. AGAIN read my column.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T12:02:11-06:00

ID

74352

Comment

I did. I liked it, as I said. But Justjess' point about his outreach to kids is very good, especially in context of everything we all know about the mayor. No one's talking about a head on a platter; we're talking about a man who is running this city horribly and causing conflict left and right. It's one thing to *want* someone who does good outreach to kids; it's another to turn a blind eye to harmful kinds of outreach.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-08T12:10:05-06:00

ID

74353

Comment

"To most people, city government seems as if it’s being run by some secret society. Full disclosure seems to be a concept lost on this administration, and many good, law-abiding voters have lost trust in the city’s ability to protect their best interests." or... "However, I can understand why some folks have lost faith in him as a politician. He can’t continue to act as if he can operate with impunity and not have detractors. " or... "All of you, from the mayor’s office down to Public Works, heed these words. We’re tired of feeling like we’re getting screwed," ...Clearly we're on the same page or close to it. But her blind rage isnt helping matters any. IMO. Just because Im not frothing at the mouth for the mayor to leave office, don't attack me. It's not a magic pill. And frankly don't think it will solve everything. Im in the middle :-) and sorry Donna..Im not selling my abilities short..I COULD do that job and well. And YOU could too. Ward was given an opportunity, he f--k-d it up and he got removed..that's what happens when you're given a chance. You either sink or swim. He sank. To answer your other ? No previous administration even stirred up nearly as much emotion about young folks as this one has. If he directed kids to sledgehammer a house, that was wrong. HELL, even Frank Bluntson said that! that's ridiculous to think most folks would agree with that. But as far as his passion for youth, that's needed..period. Hadnt seen it before and probably won't see it again. Danks, Ditto and Johnson could have cared less what was happening on the other end of Farish st. or in Georgetown, or on Wood st. If they had we might not be where we're at now.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T12:12:56-06:00

ID

74354

Comment

Kaze, Frank is the world's greatest f-up as mayor. If Franks were our boyhood or college government leader, we would have cursed him out and run him off by now. What has he done to prove otherwise he's now a? Enlighten us as to how anyone could objectively argue otherwise. No matter how his supporters try to hide it, the record states the case. And it's getting more hectic and obvious each passing day. And that's the truth, Ruth. Ruth, that's the truth!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T12:30:41-06:00

ID

74355

Comment

Normally, I do not respond to rageing, ranting or anyone who blogs in anger; however, I am compelled to restate a proverb that my father used many times before he died and during my upbringing: He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a FOOL - SHUN HIM; He who knows not and knows he knows not is SIMPLE - TEACH HIM; He who knows and knows not he knows is ASLEEP - WAKE HIM; HE who knows and knows he knows is WISE - FOLLOW HIM.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T12:48:14-06:00

ID

74356

Comment

I don't know what happened in my last email.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T12:55:16-06:00

ID

74357

Comment

Ray Carter, your were reading my mind in your last e-mail. You said exactly what I was trying to say. My comments were address exclusively to Kaze.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T12:59:16-06:00

ID

74358

Comment

Yeah, Justjess, I was more confused on that post than a diaper-wearing astronaut trying to get to Florida to do a deed and return to Houston. Somebody distracted me as I was reading and writing.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T13:43:02-06:00

ID

74359

Comment

Dunno at all what you were trying to imply there Justjess. But I really hope that it was not that Im a fool, knowledgeable or otherwise. Methinks you're getting a slight hold of a superiority complex here. Or perhaps you feel you have a better grasp of this. or maybe its because you have a few years on me I'm wrong and you're right. classic. But fact is you're biased. Ray says the SAME things you do but I sincerely believe him and don't mind reading his retorts. you made your agenda clear months ago. Don't address anything to me unless you're ready to respect my position as I TRIED to respect yours. I will give you one thing, you're the first on here to get me waaaaaay out of character. And I apologize to EVERYONE ELSE for that. Now Ray, as I told Donna, re-read my column in detail. Just because it does not call for the mayor's ousting and calls him whatever names you feel fit doesnt mean i don't see we have a problem here. Point blank.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T13:54:26-06:00

ID

74360

Comment

I agree, Kaze. You clearly included him too. We just don't understand why it appears you're kind of easy on him yet harsh on Harvey. Harvey was slower than making molasses at the North Pole. And perhaps he was arrogant and condescending, too. But Frank is loonier than Bugs Bunny was on his best day of acting. Frank needs locking up at the State Hospital. He is funny, though, and I kind of like watching the show. If he's doing this on purpose then he should take this show to Hollywood where he can be paid suitably.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T14:10:14-06:00

ID

74361

Comment

"I agree, Kaze. You clearly included him too." Thank you..oh ye who debates without bias..That's ALL I'm saying. And my column didnt bash H.J. and none of my posts have. He just wasn't THAT dude to me. But even during his tenure I wasnt obsessed with his removal. He was sloooow. arrogant, and probably didnt care if an impovershed kid on wood st. ate concrete for dinner just as long as he didnt have to go over there, but I do know that he wasnt the ONLY problem. I didnt want to bring him up now cuz mentioning his name is free publicity.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T14:16:56-06:00

ID

74362

Comment

"Leave the mayor alone and "let" him do his job..."

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2007-02-08T14:19:17-06:00

ID

74363

Comment

I agree Kaze. He blew a good thing, big time. I know people who loved Harvey but wanted to break their foot off in his behind after a couple of years, not to mention two terms. Many of them certainly claimed he didn't care. I hope it wasn't/isn't true but even I saw too little to dispute it. However, I would listen to see if he has seen the error of his ways.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T14:24:30-06:00

ID

74364

Comment

Ray Carter, there is an African-American retired PhD in Sociology who wrote a letter to the editor entitled: I Salute Mayor Johnson last year some time. If I find it, I will share it on theis link. Kaze, I'm not just simply "bias". I supported Harvey Johnson against Frank Melton. Those were the two men running for the Democratic slot. I am reading from a post where in you said that you grew up not far from the Johnsons and that you played with their son and he was like a father to you, especialy as it related to your being a member of the Boy Scouts. So what is it? Is it this or Is is that or what exactly IS IS? There is a line in the Sociologist letter which states that a Black man is not given the luxury of making a mistake- even when it is correctable. The translation for SLOW is methodical.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T14:44:00-06:00

ID

74365

Comment

yeah. slow is methodical..when you're a moutain lion trying to sneak up on an unsuspecting deer. But when ya got kids starvin and plotting to kill each other. few after school programs etc. and an overall apathy for the underpriveleged in your city and you're campaigning for a convention center THATS SLOW! IMO. and yes I did grew up not far from them. was in cub scouts etc. Harvey's my fratenity brother, didnt say he was like a father though..So is that supposed to mean Im inclined to support him? and for the record. he's an ok guy. nothing against him personally. He's an intelligent man and great planner. horrible with people and arrogant to a fault. Slow as watching paint dry. and insensitive to the needs of the young in this city. Is that enough? Enough on him though. He ISNT THE DUDE face it! The mayor could very well be shaping up to NOT be the dude either, but H.J. sure isnt. We need something new altogether. Cuz its not working now.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T15:01:58-06:00

ID

74366

Comment

Again, I supported Johnson over melton because I watched frank for over 20 years putting down Black Males. His Bottom Line Program was a trip to the gutter. I also watched melton tear down the union at WLBT. I heard him at function and always he would walk out so that no one could ask questions. Over the past year I have listened to melton, I have seen him live and in color and stereophonic sound. This man is not for Jackson and you can call this an evidenced opinion or an "obsession/" Facts are Facts/

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T15:03:38-06:00

ID

74367

Comment

ok..point taken. And ill give you that...just as long as by that you arent implying that H.J. should retake office...

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T15:08:21-06:00

ID

74368

Comment

Kaze, are you saying an enlightened or transformed H. J. is worse than Melton. H.J. could easily change his bad habits and be a great mayor, don't you think?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T15:14:28-06:00

ID

74369

Comment

I meant reformed H.J.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T15:44:17-06:00

ID

74370

Comment

Kamikaze and Ray Carter, you two obviously don't know Harvey Johnson. Arrogant and condescending are two of the least things he is. Because he is not a brown noser, a## kisser and someone people can own is not a reason to attach those labels to him. As far as him not caring about kids on Wood St. that is totally erroneous. This man cares about all the citizens of Jackson. He is very good with people, seems to me if he disagreed with people's BS that made him not good with them. He was not afraid to go anywhere at anytime in this city. He mentored before, during and still does at Rowan School and incase you don't know that's not a school in Northeast Jackson. During the summers he would have the kids at his home, he takes them to JSU games and this is only a few of the unnoticed deeds he does. Because he does it from his heart he didn't have to have cameras following him everywhere during his administration. FM is on Wood St. but this is for hiring purposes--City Hall--. I guess he wants to have the kids near him so he can keep an eye on them so they won't tell on him. By the way Harvey didn't blow it. It's media BS and FM's circus that people got hiped on. Well that circus is continuing during his administration. When you get through with all the negative discussion regarding Harvey he never embarrassed the ciitzens of Jackson and he was competent, dispite what you say!!!

Author

maad

Date

2007-02-08T15:47:59-06:00

ID

74371

Comment

Harvey did blow it. Arrogance or maybe carelessness is a better word, and big-headedness, cluelessness, and believing the hype about what only friends, allies and family say about you, can and does cause one to not see his destruction or demise coming. Our enemies are often partially right about us. But I'm no enemy. Any politican as oblivious, inept and clueless to know and diffuse or defeat lies about him as Harvey did deserves to lose. There was a peception of the things already in place that Frank capitalized on. Unless you're clueless and oblivious too Maad you know I'm no Melton fan and I'm not lying about perceptions about Harvey. I actually liked the fact that he didn't let the powerful and rich supporters and constituents tell him what to do. Of course, many of us know that's not the only reason he lost. And if you or Harvey believe it is, why didn'y you or he stop it with the incumbency machine?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T16:01:59-06:00

ID

74372

Comment

Mad it couldn't be stopped because it was the glowing and dominant perception of Harvey's administration. Something he ignored and allowed to fester. He tried to defeat too late and only with sticks while the opposition had weapon of mass destruction.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T16:11:07-06:00

ID

74373

Comment

One more thing, Maad. Don't you know perception is as good as facts in politics? Haven't the republicans shown the Democrats this by now?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T16:15:24-06:00

ID

74374

Comment

(violins in the background) waaaaaa! thanks for the Harvey man-of-the-year speech. Ray makes an interesting point and further validates my earlier claims. it is obvious he is no fan of the mayor. That's clear but he saw the obvious chinks in the H.J. armor as well. that's what makes his arguments more valid to me. You can't denounce the mayor's supporters then turn around and do the same thing with H.J. Can't make glorious character descriptions without being fair and pointing out his inadequacies as well. And he had some. Fact is..both (the mayor and H.J.)are politicians and hence...suck. The mayor's dug a hole and it is on top of the one that H.J. dug. The media didnt defeat H.J. his personality did! My God are ya doing p.r for the guy maad! That's a glowing recommendation but all those are things he should have been doing anyway and things I already do everyday. Good for him. Still doesnt mean he should be mayor again.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T16:38:59-06:00

ID

74375

Comment

His personality did! Way to cut through the chase, Kaze. I wish I could have thought of that. I would have used only those words.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T16:44:09-06:00

ID

74376

Comment

"The mayor's dug a hole and it is on top of the one that H.J. dug." Exactly what hole did HJ dig. While he was far from great or dynamic, to compare the problem of his admistration to the chaos caused by melton doesn't hold water. I in know way want Harvey to be mayor again but to make this a Harvey vs Frank debate misses the point. The point is Frank and his band of idiots are the #1 problem in Jackson. Almost all of the perceptions about jackson and its leadership that persisted during the HJ administration are now fact. While Harvey did a terrible job of being a politician and presenting his case, the media did have an agenda in the way they covered the city and the election. But for the most part, development in Jackson was on the right track, jps was improving and crime was down. I'm sorry he didn't pledge to build a recording studio on farish st, if that is the what you are referring to as youth outreach. I have missed any of the appropriate kinds of outreach the mayor has been responsible for. Maybe Kaze, you can enlighten us

Author

jd

Date

2007-02-08T17:29:47-06:00

ID

74377

Comment

Come on Ray, the "incumbency machine" is still fueled with money and opportunity and looking at the fact that we didn't and don't own television spots, news media or radio, Harvey's back was up against a brick wall. All you could hear was HJ building a mansion with tax payers money in Madison. Tisdale was around telling his viewing audience that Johnson has gone with every woman at JSU. The CL was printing every negative lie they could find to include an endorsement for melton. Some of the churches which have always been an instrument of voice for Black folks had ministers going into closed meeting lisenting to empty promises and fish fiys and booze curb parties became signature events. The game being run on Johnson was entirely too big! Anyone saying that he was "too slow" should look at the historical facts of his administration. Just remember that every ribbon cutting the City has had is secondary to the work of Johnson. Maad wrote that he was a person who did work and deeds from his heart and did not made a circus about it. We as Black folks do not have the luxury of using machinery because we don't own any and there is very little that is reasonable available. It is as greased as the Black folks sitting in the church with us during the 60s with tape recorders, given to them by whites. This activity often resulted in our being put in jail or the loss of jobs by parents who attended mass meetings.This time, the recorders are black folks and they damn sure did a hatchet job on getting ridd of a man who worked his a$$ off and who loves this City. IT is amazing when, it is all said and done, that so many didn't appreciate intelligence, professionalism but, loved a clown. The compent behavior of Johnson gave way to an incompetent CLOWN. Johnson has never been accused of a crime nor has he ever been barred by law from the presence of children. This alone cements my stand for him and he has every right to seek the office of mayor if he so chooses.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T17:35:32-06:00

ID

74378

Comment

You know, justjess, I am not sure if you feel your contribution to this blog is positive or not, but I THINK YOU AND THOSE LIKE YOU are the problem and contribute to the defeatus attitude that so many Mississippians have allowed to shadow their reasonable judgements. Now, let me go on record as saying that I too believe in young blood. I believe that the attitude, techniques, fresh opinions, new ideas, and just flat out open mindedness of the younger generation is just what this city needs. You people are so stuck on your hatred for Frank that he could give a job to Bill Clinton and you would have a problem (or George Bush for some of you). You will and could never be satisfied with any decision this man makes simply because you have convienced yourselves that Frank is a criminal and can not offer any good to this city. And you think he is just as incapable of finding someone to do a job as uh lets see....your president is of winning this war in Iraq. I am not boasting for Frank. However, it is apparent that you closed your mind and thoughts to Kaze's article right after he mentioned the mayors name. I too challenge Franks ability to make sound judgements. However, that does not mean that these gentlemen don't deserve a chance because Frank hired him. How does that sound???? I will never for the life of me understand how a group of liberal, everyone-for-everyone people like yourselves can be so candid and judgemental when it comes to this one individual. you clearly don't believe in second chances and it is hard for you to accept that although Frank, in his enthusiastic desire to be the MOST POWERFUL MAN ON THE STREETS OF JACKSON, has caused havoc for the city, he is still the mayor of this city and does not sign up for everyone to second guess every darn decision he makes. Even Jesus made choices some didn't believe in and some of them were his diciples. But you guys would easily be one in the crowd of many throwing stones at the likes of Ward and others simply because they were hired by a man you don't like....anymore. And Kamikaze, I applaud you for having the guts to continue to say you believe that he can be positive for the youth. I don't necessarily agree. But I can tell you that I applaud you for not waivering if this is how you believe. You could know something more that we do. and if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth justjess, pick a side that fits your opinion and ignore the other....since that's what seems to work best for you.

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-08T17:41:27-06:00

ID

74379

Comment

Kaze, H.J. was far from perfect. I was fooled by the melton rhetoric and was glad he was elected. I was wrong. I wonder, can anyone name some actual accomplishments by melton and his administration?

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2007-02-08T17:44:57-06:00

ID

74380

Comment

AND, i tend to believe that if he was hiring a white boy straight out of school at Mississippi State who had no experience, that would be more tolerable and understandable for you, wouldn't it? Deny it if you want, but you and your buddies here should evaluate your hatred and come to a good sound decision about your ideas. What you should be focused on is the betterment of this city? Stop worrying about Frank, individually. He is the mayor and all of his decision may be f'd up but you can't shut him down just because he opened his mouth or gave a black man a job. Yall a trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-08T17:45:56-06:00

ID

74381

Comment

"but to make this a Harvey vs Frank debate misses the point." thank you...not even the point of my column..we've gotten off track thanks to justjess and madd and the H.J. p.r. machine. HE'S NOT THE GUY...justjess you just came out and proved the point that I tried to ge Donna to see earlier in this thread and I knew you would be baited out cuz ya can't stand to hear anyone talk bad about ole H.J. so smile. you're on !Gotcha! camera LOL.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T17:48:59-06:00

ID

74382

Comment

Cliff what if no one can....what then. Do we just fight every other action he takes. Hell why not just impeach the dude. You hate him so much! Nothing he does will ever be enough for you all. I believe that although he has made bad judgements and even came across as a baphoon....at times....I am not going to continue to allow this out and out bashing of a black man who is clearly doing things the best way he can....just not the way most in this city would have them done. He's made mistakes. But are you all his judges. Are you out there trying to help him, show him what he's doing wrong. OR are you just sitting back waiting on Kaze articles to come out so you can bash him since you can't get to Frank, who'll bash you back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUH?

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-08T17:49:03-06:00

ID

74383

Comment

Everyone always wants to go back to Harvey! Harvey DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THE YOUTH OF THIS CITY. NOTHING. NOTHING. They didn't even know his name. I bet they know who the mayor is now! He's the dude they see around the way talking to the grandma's and the drug dealers too....why? I don't know, but they know him.....the youth are the future. Frank is irratic, but he recognizes that....I think.

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-08T17:51:21-06:00

ID

74384

Comment

I will not participate in a "Plantation Party" because this is the behavior that kept us slaves for so long. Good Bye JFP and good luck to all of the Citizens of Jackson who believe that Melton is doing a good job and that Harvey Johnson, Jr. was the worse thing that could have ever happened to this City.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T17:52:15-06:00

ID

74385

Comment

Actually, I agree with Justjess and Queen which shows I'm either deep or schizoid. Lots of people were certainly dedicated to doing Harvey in. However, I still ask why didn't he discern, diffuse and defeat it. He spent too little time trying. Somebody always won't to knock you off when you have a powerful position. Go to sleep on the job and see what happens to you. Frank is still a classic f-up, thus far, and I see no signs of improvement. I'm not in favor of giving him another chance. When I see the titantic sinking and the Captain doesn't have any idea what to do, I see no reason for hope. I will push his ass overboard and try the next fellow as Captain. He, he, he.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T17:55:08-06:00

ID

74386

Comment

"Cliff what if no one can....what then. Do we just fight every other action he takes. Hell why not just impeach the dude. You hate him so much! Nothing he does will ever be enough for you all." I never said I hated him. You are putting words in my mouth, "I believe that although he has made bad judgements and even came across as a baphoon....at times....I am not going to continue to allow this out and out bashing of a black man who is clearly doing things the best way he can....just not the way most in this city would have them done. He's made mistakes." For how long? How long do we need to wait fotr him to figure out how to be mayor, No one is stopping him. He's his own worst enemy. "But are you all his judges. Are you out there trying to help him, show him what he's doing wrong. OR are you just sitting back waiting on Kaze articles to come out so you can bash him since you can't get to Frank, who'll bash you back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUH?" I didn't bash Kaze. I asked him a question.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2007-02-08T18:00:05-06:00

ID

74387

Comment

I can not believe that in this day and age, we can't criticize a "Black Man" when he is clearly with many faults! I am a black man, a life long citizen of Jackson and I didn't like Frank or Harvey for mayor. I think Harvey was the less of two evils. I certainly don't think Harvey should be mayor again! But Frank should be removed immediately! Don't fall for "He's A Black Man" so we have to follow him crap! There are idiots in every race and Frank is our idiot! We can do better, Jackson.....we have to. Many people have tried to "show FM what he is doing wrong", he "doesn't give a sh*t what we think"!

Author

Fitz

Date

2007-02-08T19:00:54-06:00

ID

74388

Comment

**But Frank should be removed immediately! Don't fall for "He's A Black Man" so we have to follow him crap! There are idiots in every race and Frank is our idiot! We can do better, Jackson.....we have to. Many people have tried to "show FM what he is doing wrong", he "doesn't give a sh*t what we think"!** <-- Fitz Amen, Fitz! I totally agree. As an African-American man, I feel the same way. And if Frank is *doing things the best way he can* and we should therefore be satisfied with his incompetence, arrogance and disdain for the rule of law, then God help us all.

Author

Kacy

Date

2007-02-08T19:13:12-06:00

ID

74389

Comment

not to break up the discussion but Adios' justjess. see ya. Now Ray..can you say concede? and yes I do agree. As a black man we can't use that excuse. In whatever facet of life we should be held to the same standard and as public officials be held to th same standard. do you realize that I just left the Kim Wade show where a caller continuously referred to the mayor as "boy"? the mindset hasnt changed much. He then called back and said "I" was a "boy" Kim was a "boy" and the engineer who is an older WHITE guy was a boy. Dunno if he knew he was white though.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T19:20:13-06:00

ID

74390

Comment

I am not going to continue to allow this out and out bashing of a black man who is clearly doing things the best way he can....just not the way most in this city would have them done. He's made mistakes. But are you all his judges. Are you out there trying to help him, show him what he's doing wrong. OR are you just sitting back waiting on Kaze articles to come out so you can bash him since you can't get to Frank, who'll bash you back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUH? Who's bashing a black man. I'm bashing an idiot! Sorry, I have to agree with justjess on most of this. It was a modern day lynching when you really look at how several different "institutions of racism" stepped in and hung Harvey. I believe Donna first pointed that out? I've got a yearly list of accomplishments that happened each year in this City under Harvey. Call me when Melton even gives the public 1 list of his accomplishments in 2 years! Look, the Harvey pity party died off a long time ago for most of us. However, if we cannot compare the current administration to those in the past without hearing about how much some people thought Harvey sucked, what is the point of having a discussion, and how do we measure our progress (or lack of!!)? If our MSM is going to ignore straight facts about the crime, and the effectiveness of the past administration, then we will never know, never be able to gauge whether we have made progress or not! And, no one can predict how Harvey would have responded after Katrina. For all we know, he would have capitalized on it for Jackson like Haley has for MS? Now with the Democratic controlled Congress, Harvey would be poised to reap the rewards of their victory. But, we can't predict the future when we are voting. I think he will get the last laugh in this if a Democrat wins the Presidency. Harvey goes to Washington. You read it here first.

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-08T20:06:56-06:00

ID

74391

Comment

I can't believe that anyone would suggest that Frank Melton is as good at his job as Harvey Johnson, or even Kane Ditto or Dale Danks. Look at his record. Look at the damage he's doing. Look at how fucking CRAZY his behavior is. He is Jackson's answer to Kirk Fordice, without the handlers Fordice had. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-08T22:25:22-06:00

ID

74392

Comment

.justjess you just came out and proved the point that I tried to ge Donna to see earlier in this thread and I knew you would be baited out cuz ya can't stand to hear anyone talk bad about ole H.J. so smile. you're on !Gotcha! camera LOL. I go out reporting for a day, and what a mess of a thread I come back to! My first question is for you, Kamikaze. In the comment I just quoted, what point did Justjess just prove that you tried to get me to see earlier? I'm still not seeing it. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing—I just don't see you making a lot of points in your comments, or justjess proving one for you. You made points in your column, but since then you've been unloading on justjess for disagreeing with you, rather than answering her and other folks' challenges. (And the whole attacking-Frank-because-he's-black thing is just laughable in this case. You have heard how he belittles people who try to even bring up race in a discussion, right? And you know what he routinely says about you hip-hop guys with baggy pants and earrings as well, right? OK, maybe not to your faces.) As for this question: "But are you all his judges. Are you out there trying to help him, show him what he's doing wrong. Yes, we are his judges. We pay his salary. Just as everyone judged the previous mayor. It's our responsibility to. To the second question: again, yes. He won't listen. He is intent on destroying any potential he has to recover and be a decent mayor, not to mention citizen. I feel sorry for him, but that doesn't mean he should be mayor. It is also simply a fact that justjess is not belittling you and your views, Kaze, any more than you do people who disagree with you. You ought to have a tougher skin here and answer her concerns rather than attac. You'd be more convincing. And she has raised some good concerns, although she has been too personal as well. Otherwise, the Harvey discussion is interesting. I've made a very compelling case in the past that he was screwed in many ways—mostly by a naive and sensationalistic mainstream media. However, I also agree with Ray that he did not do enough himself to fight back. And as much as I liked some of his staff members, they were not equipped to handle the sophsitication of the machine that aligned against him. Suffice it to say that Harvey Johnson's legacy is going to be much stronger than Frank Melton's. He's turned his mayoral reign into a joke at this point. I don't even see how he could salvage it if he wants to, and he clearly doesn't. It's also interesting to note that no one has given an actual substantial criticism of Johnson on this thread. Reminds me of reasons that folks didn't vote for Gore—too "wooden." Then we got Bush, and more than 3,000 American deaths in Iraq. Maybe wooden wasn't as bad as people thought. And, Queen: Actually, Melton is the man who excuses some drug dealers and helps them and tries to send others to prison for life. He's the mayor who plays favorites for no reason that makes no sense to young people in Jackson. Finally, Queen, do you understand that some of Melton's biggest supporters are white racists straight out of Ole Miss, etc., who want exactly what is happening to be happening—for Jackson to fall apart under an imcompetent *black* mayor. Don't miss the big picture here. Melton is a pawn in the game. OK, now I'm exiting the new civil war stage right. Y'all don't kill each other. You have more in common than you think.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-08T22:56:54-06:00

ID

74393

Comment

I've already said almost everything that I could possibly say about Frank Melton, but here's one thing I haven't said before: I would feel much more comfortable criticizing this mayor, whose decisions really are endangering the city and so forth, if he were white. I don't like excoriating the second black mayor in the history of Jackson like this, and don't think I do, and don't think I don't know how that looks. I don't like criticizing someone who was 15 years ago the most powerful man and the most powerful black man in Jackson. And I also don't like how Melton's own behavior might please racists--can you imagine how many conversations might go something to the effect of "...and this is why you should never let those people run a city"? Racists are going to use this, and maybe some of them will quote people like me, and don't think that doesn't bother me, either. But in the final analysis, he's hurting the citizens of this city badly--hurting the black residents much more than the white residents, on average--and the NAACP and ACLU have been after him for this very reason. And Kaze, I would seriously like to hear you explain Melton's behavior vis-a-vis the Michael Black "damn thug" beating incident. That's what tipped it for me. That's the point where I realized this mayor really was as dangerous as Donna thought he would be. I wanted to believe for a long time. I can't anymore. You'd have a better chance of convincing me that the Tooth Fairy is real than you would of convincing me that Frank Melton is a better mayor than Harvey Johnson was. And this is not to say that Harvey Johnson didn't have his faults--I think he did, and I'm not sure all of them were with his PR--but I believe he was probably the best mayor in the history of Jackson up to that point, and I wish he were still in office now because I would feel so much more comfortable about the future of this city. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-09T06:09:18-06:00

ID

74394

Comment

Yes, Queen, a black man or person doing a terrible and crazy-man job gets no unearned pass or respect from me. Add elitism, the above-the- law dynamic, narcissism, lack of respect for anyone's views but his own, the little man complex, the overseer mentality, the I'm the decider or ultimate authority perspective, the love of a big-ass police r.v., and an unresolved and insatiable need to play cowboy or police chief or commando - and we got a big mess that transcends race, sex, human decency and the rule of law. Frank won't change because there is something wrong with everyone but him. Again, I say if we're fortunate enough to get a new mayor, I'm open to Johnson presenting his case as mayor again.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-09T09:53:32-06:00

ID

74395

Comment

Kaz, Harvey Johnson did get out in the community. Each year, he went to Head Start centers and sat down and read to low-income preschoolers. A lot of his problem was that he did not cultivate sensationalistic media coverage for every trip to the 'hood. The media (you know who) sensationalized crime under his tenure at a time when it was actually going down. Has crime gone down? Our present mayor went to one of the Head Start centers during the campaign and gave a speech promising that he would talk to their director and make sure that every child in the center learned to swim and learned spanish. No one in Head Start ever heard from him again coincerning those promises after that day. HJ did seem arrogant and isolated from everyday people. Some of his greatest error was in public relations and being SO methodical, but I would rather see that than a fool dashing in where angels fear to tread.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-02-10T15:37:46-06:00

ID

74396

Comment

And I am an African American man (last time I checked) (-:.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-02-10T15:39:26-06:00

ID

74397

Comment

I just had to respond to the children don't know HJ. that is wrong he went to every public school at least twice during his tenure. the first time he sent thank you letters to all the children who were at school that day. He was usually swamped with the kids when he went to the schools with his gun awareness,and seat bealt safety programs. He even gave them stickers to put on their book covers or whatever. Just thought I needed to correct this. The media was always notified when he would be at a school. Guess what NONE showed up. He did a lot of things with the youth no pne bothered to cover so what ever his preceived faults were or are he has been a good stewart of the cities monies. No new taxes and no one laid off.

Author

jada

Date

2007-02-10T15:58:55-06:00

ID

74398

Comment

Bottom line here is Melton may not be the best man for the job! Obviously there are split opinions on that subject. However, please don't get it twisted that does not by any means that Harvey was or ever will be a better man for the job. I tend to think that the less threatening, more controllable man would be the one most would jump on and support, that being Harvey. I believe that because most people jump on the HARVEY BUS at this point because they were thrown from the one Frank was driving. Now at this point it's all about why you got off the bus or why you were kicked off. I seem to remember some of you on here clearly being hopeful in the mayor...of course prior to his tirades. Now, though, Harvey is the best man to lead the city. STOP IT! That's just ludicrious. The man is lackadaisical at best. He's a good fit. He is controllable and frank is not! Maybe that just doesn't sit well with most of you here. And Donna, I get your point. Thanks for the insight scoop on the racists that support frank. THere are racists who support you and your publication as well. There are racists who support Barak Obama. There are racists who support Haley Barbour. What exactly is your point? If a racist supports the man then he is unworthy? You're saying he's a do-boy, huh? That is simply astonishing to me....because if I ever saw a do-boy, ya man HARVEY was it!!!!

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-12T13:31:08-06:00

ID

74399

Comment

Queen, at this point, an argument over whether Johnson was a better mayor than someone like Melton is too ridiculous for me to engage in. Melton has moved the bar so low that such a comparison would be absurd. Right now, about any mayor who isn't lying regularly and committing crimes, and reportedly getting young people to commit them with him, would be an improvement. Can you point to a single positive thing that Melton has done as mayor? Actually, to my knowledge, no racists or powerful white conservatives long hated by many people in the black community "supports" my paper, especially in the way that those folks provided Melton's strongest power base. Perhaps you're not clear on just who have been Melton's strongest supporters. If you were, it would perhaps make more sense that he is going into poor black people's homes without warrants or regard to their civil rights and tearing down buildings that belong to hard-working black women. There is a certain logic at play here.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-12T13:36:52-06:00

ID

74400

Comment

Just saw Jada's comment about Johnson and kids. I have to back her up. I covered him speaking to elementary schools, giving wonderful motivational speeches about staying in school and not doing drugs that had the kids screaming back in delight. And, yes, I was the only reporter there.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-12T13:38:26-06:00

ID

74401

Comment

Well Donna, you could be right. Unfortunately I have never been able to interview Frank or Harvey. I am not abreast on who supported him either, as you seem to be. I think that you and somt others here are just in complete disdain for the man, personally. And you know as well as I do that I am not in support of Frank and his outrageous antics. I've been very vocal about that. But more importantly, I am still having an issue with certain jacksonians who have all the questions and can critizise til the sun goes down, and does nothing but bash and talk. I feel like if you know so much about how he's so certainly ridiculous, then you should also be offering some solution. JFP has been the main media outlet for MELTON MOODS since dude took office and you're still turning wheels. I agree with you that Frank has let us down. However, I find your method of talking until we can't talk any more a bit cowardly. I don't see what good it does to continue to talk and do nothing. I've seen you pull all types of things to make stuff happen in the city, but when it comes to Frank, all you do is talk. Let's do something. That's all I'm saying. I'm not defending the man. But I am ready to do something....are you?

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-12T13:53:03-06:00

ID

74402

Comment

I didn't vote for Melton or Johnson. I didn't dislike Johnson but after 8 years of seeing how his administration worked (or didn't at times) I wanted change. I was on the fence about Melton at first but jumped off after I realized he was an empty suit with no plan. But I was willing to support Melton because on paper he seemed like he might make a decent mayor in spite of his shortcomings and empty campaign. Hindsight is always 20/20 vision and I think a lot of people in the community who were against Harvey 2 years ago are now waxing nostagic for Junior because they underestimated just how crazy and unfocused Melton is, not because they really like HJ. And I think the "whose better" arguments are just a reflection of people's fears and uncertainty about the lack of clear leadership from City Hall but really serve no purpose at this point other than a release of frustration.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2007-02-12T14:05:05-06:00

ID

74403

Comment

I have no personal disdain for Melton as a person. I've said many times that I like him one on one. I also went into the campaign without a strong opinion about Johnson—had Melton been a better candidate, I would have supported him. However, our reporting quickly revealed that he was vastly inferior as a candidate to Johnson. That does not mean there is no one who would have been better. I actually don't have the strong emotions you are trying to attach to me about either man as a person. The problem is plain old facts, which have shown that Melton is dangerous for the city. That is a question far beyond basic competency as a public official. And with due respect, the "talk and do nothing" thing is B.S. Some of the people who speak the loudest on this Web site work hard for Jackson every day. That is a form of ad hominem attack that you and others use when you run out of arguments. It fails miserably, just so you know. And ejeff makes a good point: the "who's better" argument isn't exactly the most relevant one on the table right now. You sure don't have to have been a huge fan of Johnson's to see that he was a better mayor (dubious honor), but at this point that isn't especially relevant. Except, perhaps, in that we need to figure out how to get the media to cover candidates better so men like Melton can't fool an entire city in the future. As for who supporting Melton, it's right in the campaign finance reports, and in news reports. It's no great mystery. As for a solution for the immediate problem—Melton in the mayor's seat—that's a tough one under Mississippi law. However, the JFP's strong reporting to date has led to the indictments and, more importantly, the restrictions on his carrying guns, supervising youth, using police equipment, etc., which may well have kept something much worse from happening. We're doing what we can—and for a newspaper, that means educating the public whether or not they like what the facts are. You put the facts out, and let the chips may where they may. That is our job, and we are doing it. Queen, if you're challenging me to challenge Melton to a duel or something to prove I'm not cowardly, I'll have to respectfully decline and stick to the power of the almighty pen (or keyboard). Sorry. I'm not the violent type. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-12T14:32:59-06:00

ID

74404

Comment

Did I miss something? Are HJ and Melton the only two choices we have to lead jackson? Hopefully after the trial in april our long local nightmare will be over and we can look to new leadership. And queen how can you compare the two administration. Its like this nas line, " 'Cuz Nas rap is compared to legitimize crap." Harvey may have not been comparable to Nas but Frank sure can be compared to crap and a few other expletives. Also, having the support of some racists is different from being backed by a group of racists with their own agenda for the city. And as for your point of offering solutions, i believe posters and jfp have offered many but the most important one being the city council stand up to melton. They control much of the purse strings and have to finally say enough is enough. Because if he makes it through the trial still in office there is no telling what he thinks he will be able to get away with

Author

jd

Date

2007-02-12T14:46:56-06:00

ID

74405

Comment

I think the distinction between journalism and activism is important. Seems to me your job is to "talk," and "talking" ain't inconsequential. Just getting the facts out there is one of the most consequential things you can do. But I don't think Queen was necessarily talking about violence. I think she was talking about pickets, rallies, telephone campaigns, and so forth. I used to laugh at this kind of thing, but by golly, it does work astonishingly well sometimes. Personally, although I'd rather see Melton step down, I still think he's entirely capable of redeeming himself. We don't know what kind of long-term effects the bypass, or the trials, or the staff changes, or pressure from City Council, or a simple increase in citizen activism, might have on his behavior. If it turns out we are stuck with him until 2009, then we may as well do what we can to influence him. He isn't made of wood. There are things he cares about. It's not as if everything's coming to a standstill under Melton anyway. We're still getting the King Edward and Farish Street renovations, the Convention Center, the Fortification Street work, a badly-needed infusion into the Metrocenter, etc. etc. etc. There's still massive development in Fondren and downtown Jackson. And while his apparently nonexistent "crime plan" is deeply problematic on so many levels, I really think the crime boost has more to do with Hurricane Katrina than it does with the mayor. We'll be fine, and I think that's the message we need to be sending to the citizens of this city--regardless of the mayor's policies, or lack thereof. I am picking up a vibe from some people, not really you, that it's all junk until Melton leaves office and we can pretty much forget Jackson getting any better until then. I think that kind of attitude is as dangerous as it is unwarranted. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T14:48:15-06:00

ID

74406

Comment

jaydortch writes: Did I miss something? Are HJ and Melton the only two choices we have to lead jackson? No, and while Harvey unquestionably got a raw deal and would make a great mayor if returned to office, I tend to think we need new leadership, too. There's just too much baggage there, too much of a Louis XIV vibe to his administration that, while mostly undeserved, is going to be what people remember from last time around if he runs again. I'll be singing the praises of HJ's administration forevermore, and history will remember him well, but he has an image problem and I don't think he can overcome it. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T14:51:15-06:00

ID

74407

Comment

I need to pray for some faith then. I'm all out of faith that Frank can or will change. It seems he can't wait to continue the old foolish antics i.e still hanging around the mobile command, still hanging around children, still meddling with the Upper Deck, still travelling with the same body guards, et al. Yet I hope you're right Tom should he get pass the trials.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-12T14:56:12-06:00

ID

74408

Comment

I guess what I'm thinking back to, Ray, is past Jackson mayors. Kane Ditto was the first true desegregationist mayor we had, and even there getting him to appoint a black police chief was like pulling teeth. If Jackson can be a great city even with a violent racist like Allen C. Thompson at the helm, I think we'll be able to survive another few years with Frank Melton if we have to. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T15:01:15-06:00

ID

74409

Comment

I am picking up a vibe from some people, not really you, that it's all junk until Melton leaves office and we can pretty much forget Jackson getting any better until then. I think that kind of attitude is as dangerous as it is unwarranted. tom Check this thread out from the Free Republic just after Melton was indicted in the Ridgeway incident. Wow, he had the conservative all over him from being a democrat to just being a mess up! Here's a blog from a professor at the Stennis Institute. This would be civics lesson enough for most Mississippians were it not for the actions of the Mayor of Mississippi’s capital city. Mayor Frank Melton has been giving those who have sworn to uphold the Mississippi and U.S. Constitutions and the laws of the State of Mississippi fits. The Mayor’s frustration with the crime situation in Jackson has caused him to take many a short cut in his effort to mete out justice in a swift and sure manner. The latest gambit to “deprive a citizen of property without due process of law” saw the Mayor orchestrate the destruction of the front of a house with sledge hammers. This followed on the heels of numerous less prominent actions related to the Mayor's involvement in police work in the city. In fact 90% of Google searches for Melton are negative articles or blog entries from local and national sites. Sure Jackson has lots of good things; but, raise your hand if you are tired of the negative press that Melton generates. His antics dwarf any positive news going on that may catch the eye of the average citizen. Sorry, I can't sit by idle as Melton continues to make a mockery of Jackson, Mississippi, and the legal system. There is a big difference between bashing Melton and bashing Jackson; and, if you can't separate the two while seeing the damage one does to the other, then that is a you problem.

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-12T15:20:53-06:00

ID

74410

Comment

Everytime someone mentions the goodness or possibilities of Meltton I hear McLemeore prophetic words with great hurt, sadness and resolve, "He doesn't want to govern!" I think the Upper Deck raid was likely about continuing to parlay this image of being a crime fighter. If this is the case, we will see more of it as the trial nears.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-12T15:28:30-06:00

ID

74411

Comment

Pike writes: Sure Jackson has lots of good things; but, raise your hand if you are tired of the negative press that Melton generates. I think I've been pretty clear that I am. By the way, I'm glad to hear you say that Jackson has a lot of good things now--since you referred to the rodeo as "one of the few good things we've got" in another thread. There is a big difference between bashing Melton and bashing Jackson; My point exactly, and a good illustration of the difference between the two is to look at the JFP's own coverage--which bashes Melton, but supports Jackson. On the other hand, the "crime-infested hellhole" rhetoric I'm hearing from some circles--both in the comments field here, and offline--has me bummed out, because it's all so very familiar. It's only a matter of time before we hear the next line of reasoning, which is that we should put a stop to new development until we've "solved the crime problem"--everybody still remembers when folks used that line against Jackson when Johnson was mayor, right? Everybody remembers the damage that attitude did to the city? Good. Let's keep all of that in mind when people start resurrecting it to "bash Melton," because people will. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T15:42:24-06:00

ID

74412

Comment

Ray writes: Everytime someone mentions the goodness or possibilities of Meltton I hear McLemeore prophetic words with great hurt, sadness and resolve, "He doesn't want to govern!" And if one more member of the City Council comes around to McLemore's way of thinking, he almost won't have to. Let's be honest here: Melton would be much less of a problem if more people in city government would just grow a backbone and stand up to him. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T15:45:00-06:00

ID

74413

Comment

By the way, I'm glad to hear you say that Jackson has a lot of good things now--since you referred to the rodeo as "one of the few good things we've got" in another thread. Tom The rodeo IS "one of the few good things we've got" when you talk about tourist attractions that bring in dollars from outside the Metro area. I'm sorry; but, the average person from Tupelo or Birmingham doesn't come to Jackson for a recital at Millsaps or a concert they can see in their own town at their own bars/arenas. When it comes to big time, nationally covered, hotel filling, restaurant packing events in Jackson, the rodeo is one of the few. It is one of Jackson's staple events like the IBC, the State Fair, and now the Saints training location. I am glad we are seeing middle ground between our points of view. Peace Tom.

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-12T15:49:45-06:00

ID

74414

Comment

Did I miss something? Are HJ and Melton the only two choices we have to lead jackson? Three points for jaydortch.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-12T16:11:45-06:00

ID

74415

Comment

Queen601 said: "I agree with you that Frank has let us down. However, I find your method of talking until we can't talk any more a bit cowardly..." I find it amusing that someone who doesn't use their real name calling Donna Ladd, "cowardly".

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2007-02-12T16:28:00-06:00

ID

74416

Comment

Jaydortch, who else besides Crisler has even expressed a vocal interest in running? I'm sure there are plenty of qualified people in Jackson who could be mayor, but each election cycle only one or two people from either party express enough interest to actually run. Each election cycle I hear about folks who have expressed some interest to their friends but end up not running. We can all sit here and speculate til the cows come home on good candidates but until there is an election and people start saying "I want to be mayor", the voters don't have many options. Again, we *know* Crisler is interested, HJ maybe, but beyond is just conjecture. And its still a bit premature anyway since this mayor is still the mayor for the foreseeable future.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2007-02-12T17:01:21-06:00

ID

74417

Comment

I believe Mclemore will run, although the two of them running in the same primary may let frank win it. I don't think Mclemore attends to run for his council seat again but that may have change or may change. But if Frank survives and runs for reelection, there needs to be just one candidate so they don't split the "anyone but frank vote" because frank still has some die hard supporters who will support him no matter what he does. I wonder what his approval rating is. You would think he would have Bush numbers but I bet its higher.

Author

jd

Date

2007-02-12T17:51:55-06:00

ID

74418

Comment

Sorry I meant to type "speculation" not "conjecture". McLemore occured to me, and I *know* he was interested several years ago but didn't want to run against HJ. Assuming Melton is weakened enough in 2 years (also assuming he's going to run and doesn't get thrown out of office before then) McL could stand an excellent chance of being nominated. I know Melton still has plenty of diehard supporters but I'm predicting there will be more than enough support this time to eliminate him in the Democratic primaries.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2007-02-12T18:03:05-06:00

ID

74419

Comment

ejeff writes: Jaydortch, who else besides Crisler has even expressed a vocal interest in running? I'm sure there are plenty of qualified people in Jackson who could be mayor, but each election cycle only one or two people from either party express enough interest to actually run. Mmm. Can't agree there. Only one or two Republicans run because they know they won't win in Jackson (if we ever had a Republican mayor, it was during Reconstruction), and only one or two Democrats run because the party usually unites behind an incumbent. I can't remember the last time we had an "open seat" scenario, but in 1993, we had at least a half-dozen candidates including both Harvey Johnson (who lost that time) and Henry Kirskey, among many others, because Ditto was unpopular and folks thought it was time for a change. When Ditto won another term, Johnson made another run for it in 1997 and by then everybody had pretty much consolidated behind him, giving him the power base he would need to win with no real opposition in 1997 and again in 2001--and if anybody but Frank Melton had run against him in 2005, I'm sure he would have won a third term, too. It doesn't surprise me that few candidates have announced their intentions--Melton is less than halfway through his term, and municipal elections don't usually come up with much fanfare--but something tells me that 2009 will be exciting, very much like 1993. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T18:33:47-06:00

ID

74420

Comment

ejeff, gotta say that of all the names that have been floated around, McLemore is the one that I keep coming back to as well. I hope he runs and gets it. He's a very deep, insightful guy--he'd be great for the city. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-12T20:06:59-06:00

ID

74421

Comment

Uh Cliff, you know what, if that was all you had to add to my comment, you could have saved that. Several people here don't use there real name. AND I SAID THAT IT SEEMED COWARDLY....that is, the act of DOING NOTHING BUT TALKING. I did not say that Donna was a coward! Stop trying to pick out something to argue about. That's why nothing's being done about this issue in the first place....too much talk and nitpicky rhetoric.

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-13T17:11:40-06:00

ID

74422

Comment

And with due respect, the "talk and do nothing" thing is B.S. Some of the people who speak the loudest on this Web site work hard for Jackson every day. That is a form of ad hominem attack that you and others use when you run out of arguments. It fails miserably, just so you know. <

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-13T17:13:39-06:00

ID

74423

Comment

But I don't think Queen was necessarily talking about violence. I think she was talking about pickets, rallies, telephone campaigns, and so forth. I used to laugh at this kind of thing, but by golly, it does work astonishingly well sometimes. << YEP YOU GOT IT! THAT's WHAT QUEEN IS TALKING ABOUT. I recognize that discussion is necessary to keep folk in an uproar and to add flavor to the issue, but all in all if nothing is done after the discussing it seems to be all for nothing...in my opinion. I have been on this site for some years....I supported Frank initially and quite frankly due to the comments I've read here, I almost want to lend my support back to him just because if he doing so much dangerous stuff, then people ought to be (in my opinion) doing something about it. Besides just having an open discussion and going back and forth....so much to where the point of the entire discussion is lost and the battle at the same time. I'm trying to get some Malcolm X going, yall still on the Martin Luther King. Nope, naysayers, I'm not saying the MLK way is incorrect or ineffective....I"M just saying that with my voice I'd rather get this problem solved "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY"....that is without hurting anyone or breaking the law. GET IT????

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-13T17:18:52-06:00

ID

74424

Comment

Queen. Do you mean like when you said I hated the mayor? "Cliff what if no one can....what then. Do we just fight every other action he takes. Hell why not just impeach the dude. You hate him so much! Nothing he does will ever be enough for you all." Your words. Or like when you said: "But are you all his judges. Are you out there trying to help him, show him what he's doing wrong. OR are you just sitting back waiting on Kaze articles to come out so you can bash him since you can't get to Frank, who'll bash you back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUH?" Once again, your words. As I stated: I didn't bash Kaze. I asked him a question. I get along with Kaze just fine. Ask him. As far as bashing Frank. I don't bash him. I just point out what I think about it, and I don't do it under some anonymous user name. Have a nice day.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2007-02-13T17:20:38-06:00

ID

74425

Comment

Okay fine, who are they....they are the ones that I need to be having this discussion with. Kaze has said it a few times. ;-P And ummm, Queen, you were talking directly to me using the word "you" when you were railing about us being "cowardly." If you don't mean it, don't say it. Or say you didn't mean it. Calling out someone else for challenging what you clearly said for being "nitpicky" is rather, well, "cowardly," IMHO. Frankly, though, I don't care that you called me cowardly. I believe my work and my actions speak for themselves. And I've been called worse.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T17:21:31-06:00

ID

74426

Comment

Oh, and what Cliff said: Have a nice day.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T17:22:45-06:00

ID

74427

Comment

Got it! I'm in very much the same boat myself, and to be honest I think MLK had a hell of a lot more in common with Malcolm X than most people realize. I wrote a blog entry about that a few weeks ago. Dr. King actually took a by any means necessary approach himself--including breaking the law, which I'd like to think I'd also be willing to do if absolutely necessary. I think the difference was that Malcolm X used more forceful rhetoric and advocated violence in self-defense, while MLK was a strict satyagraha and did not believe that violence was acceptable under any circumstances. I ran into someone at the capitol an hour ago who knows Chokwe Lumumba, and I asked to be put to work, so here's hoping we see each other on a picket line sometime if we haven't already met! I think most of us are activists. Donna doesn't mention this often, but she has done some pretty good work herself. Of course none of us would even know what Melton had been up to if it weren't for her and Adam, and that's worth a lot. But I do think that we probably do too much kvetching among ourselves when we should be organizing. An activist friend from out of state asks me sometimes why we don't have more luck recruiting people. I tell her it's because we're an impoverished state. We come from a long line of poor folks who aren't used to getting their way, and there's some learned helplessness there. That's true for folks of all races, but especially I think for low-income blacks. We have a 36% black population, and the day that population is equally represented in the public square and at the ballot box is the day we see real reform in this state. And that day is coming. Maranatha! Most of my work is with NOW. I've been focused on the abortion bill, and when I'm done with that I've got plenty of other stuff to raise hell about as well. You can bet I won't be idle. I got bit by the activist bug last summer and I'll never go back. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-13T17:29:17-06:00

ID

74428

Comment

to be honest I think MLK had a hell of a lot more in common with Malcolm X than most people realize. Certainly at the end of their lives they were moving together. Otherwise, I'd say that you want to organize marches against Melton's methods, Queen, go for it. But it seems rather counterproductive to be so angry about people criticizing him along the way and having conversations about it. Where would the NOI been within its newspapers anyway? Activism takes many forms. I will also say this: My job is not to organize, at least not in the way you mean, although I do a tad of it from time to time, and I provide open forums for organizers to spread the word. My job is to write stories, lead discussions and encourage people to think and challenge themselves. Call that cowardly if you must.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T17:36:06-06:00

ID

74429

Comment

Donna, I don't think anyone could call you a coward (and your ability to organize in that way is complicated by your status as a journalist--I know this), but I share what I think I read in Queen's frustration with the way we deal with these issues sometimes--and I don't mean you, really, so much as progressive Jackson at large, myself included. NOW has taught me a lot of things; I spent 30 hours at Reproductive Freedom Summer, probably a good 15-20 over the past week, fighting abortion bans. Waste of time? That hasn't been my experience. People come out of the woodwork. They get brave and show their teeth. And that's activism, I believe--the act of getting brave and showing our teeth. Progressives need Donna Ladd in the local activist community. You're not just courageous; you're indispensable. Where else are we going to get our information? But I hear so many angry words on this blog from people who, if they would just pick up the phone and share those angry words with their local council member, might generate results. I hear so many apocalyptic predictions from people who have the power to prevent that apocalypse. The power is in your hands, people. Let's rise and walk. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-13T17:45:36-06:00

ID

74430

Comment

"But I hear so many angry words on this blog from people who, if they would just pick up the phone and share those angry words with their local council member, might generate results. I hear so many apocalyptic predictions from people who have the power to prevent that apocalypse. The power is in your hands, people. Let's rise and walk." You JUST summed it up TH. Let me make it a point here to exclude Donna from my next statement...NOW EVERYONE, this constant blabbering is getting us nowhere! What you wanna do? those who wish to keep the status quo rely on our reluctance to act and just "talk" You gotta do more than just raise issues. I know that I can't just write columns. I gotta be hands on. gotta see the people. touch the people

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-13T17:54:30-06:00

ID

74431

Comment

I can feel that part, too. But it's funny that you manage to deliver that statement without insulting everyone in sight, or without saying that you're about ready to go back and support Melton again because people are talking about his flaws too much. People in this state have centuries of talking to do. I see no benefit in lambasting them for trying to do so. Someone who believes in true organizing would understand that doing that is just going to hurt her/her own cause. It's very sad to put so much displaced energy into trying to tear down those who care the most. But it's not the first time we've seen it, nor will it be the last.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T17:56:49-06:00

ID

74432

Comment

Thanks for the exclusion, Kaze, but I'd still challenge you on this. Can you really lead such action when you're sitting there citing Michael Black's rap sheet as some sort of partial excuse for his being beaten while in handcuffs??? Maybe we're not done talking just yet.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T17:58:30-06:00

ID

74433

Comment

I also really, really, really despise this statement you just made: this constant blabbering is getting us nowhere! That is a bullsh!t statement, Kaze, and here is why: Our state's culture has not allowed people to have these kinds of public conversations throughout our history. We have been taught reticence and to lower our voices as Mississippians. I left this state because I did not believe I could say what was on my mind here. I do NOT respect any effort to squelch the voices that are now rising up to talk to each other and be read by people too afraid still to talk themselves. Motivate and challenge and organize, Kamikaze, all you want. But do not use my Web site to tell anybody to "stop blabbering" or to belittle others who are finding their voices. Besides, you don't even know who most of the people are here—don't be so arrogant as to think you know how they spend their time when they're not on this blog "blabbering" as you so eloquently call it. Do no harm, Kaze. Do no harm.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T18:02:44-06:00

ID

74434

Comment

"It's very sad to put so much displaced energy into trying to tear down those who care the most" ..Are you sure...Or is that assumption? any fact to that? How are you sure THOSE folks care the MOST? Or are you saying that they obviously care more than me? or you? Or can you just say that I just challenge those who "talk" incessantly without following up with action. I "talk" too. I "write" as well. But I am, and always will be a man of "action" And again I state that regardless whose mayor or otherwise, Its up to us to put our foots down and do something!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-13T18:05:14-06:00

ID

74435

Comment

okay, now you're just getting touchy. But it's your site and I can respect that. but you know Im not trying to squelch anything c'mon. And no I don't know what they do, Donna, and perhaps one day Ill SEE em out here somewhere...Blabbering is just a phrase I use kinda like jibber jabber of flippity flap...my apologies for termanology but I stand firm on what I said.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-13T18:10:28-06:00

ID

74436

Comment

Kamikaze, you're getting goofy now. I'm not trying to compare you with some anonymous bloggers. This isn't a "whose bigger" game. The point is that you have no frackin' way of knowing what all the people you so easily belittle do with their time. Be a man of action; we all want that. Hopefully, that will inspire others to do the same. But along the way, do not use your space here to try to silence other people. I don't offer you, or anyone else, the forum for that purpose.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T18:10:51-06:00

ID

74437

Comment

Funny. Had this conversation not turned into a "bash the anonymous" game, perhaps we would still be on the high road here. There's a teachable moment in here if anyone is interested. Of course, this is typical in "activist" circles. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T18:12:08-06:00

ID

74438

Comment

It's not "touchy" just because I respond to your stereotyping and generalizations, Kaze. It's a response. You passionate, me touchy. You goofy, me out of here to edit a story. Keep talkin'. You're doing a great job. Just don't try to shut people up along the way. It's counter-productive. That's all. Ciao.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T18:13:53-06:00

ID

74439

Comment

never "belittled" anyone. Thats taking a victim tone. And again, if anyone BESIDES you stepped up then maybe I might see if was bullying or belittling anyone. I made my assertion, its MY opinion. Prove me wrong. That's all. and when ya do, Ill say I was wrong, shake your hand, and move on to the next joust.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-13T18:17:57-06:00

ID

74440

Comment

"But all is fair in love, I had to go away, a writer takes his pen, to write the words again, that all is fair in love."

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-13T18:22:19-06:00

ID

74441

Comment

We have to talk. We need information. We need consensus. All of this is important. I have no complaints about Donna Ladd. Right now I don't see anyone else, with the possible exception of Chokwe Lumumba, Faye Peterson, and three folks on the City Council, who is doing more to fight the excesses of the Melton administration. And none of them were on the scene as early as Donna was. But I think the rest of us just need to follow up. We need to look at a story like the Michael Black beating and say "If this outrages you, click here for contact information on your City Council member--and preferably contact this person by phone, not email." And on top of that, we need to organize marches, rallies, press conferences, and so forth. I think this is something that we might see from Chokwe Lumumba in the weeks ahead, but the ACLU is already doing some great work on this front, and if I were someone new to all this and looking to get involved in this kind of activism, I would call the ACLU right now and say so. They can always use more volunteers! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-13T18:41:34-06:00

ID

74442

Comment

A "victim tone"? No, Kaze, I'm moderating your rude a$$. Figure out the difference. Ha!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T19:05:58-06:00

ID

74443

Comment

thats ok Kaze. I've moved over to make room for you on the I'm on Donna's bad side bench.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-13T19:13:48-06:00

ID

74444

Comment

Why do y'all boys think that you're on my bad side just cuz I dare to challenge you?!? That's almost as bad as calling me a victim for talking back. ;-) Don't worry. I think Kaze is great. That's why I bother to get sassy with him from time to time.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T19:25:24-06:00

ID

74445

Comment

(Can't say the same for you, though, 'Fish. Ha!)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T19:25:50-06:00

ID

74446

Comment

RUDE...Donna Im hurt! LOL. Ive been called rude and crass before...But Im as real as they come. Maybe I shouldnt use the phrase victim tone...But again I have never seen on this blog where Ray, or Queen, or Cliff or Tom or Fish EVER has a problem saying they felt threatened, belittled or bullied. Frankly I dont think any of them are timid. And Again YOU were the only one who stepped to say that I was "belittling" anyone. they're perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. Just as the members of MAP are (to backtrack a bit) No need to jump in and save us and no need to say Im "belittling" people when no one has said that. Trust! no one here has EVER had a problem calling me out.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-13T19:33:14-06:00

ID

74447

Comment

Kaze: SHe doesn't threaten me, bully me, or belittle me, she just keeps banning me. ;-) Oh well, I did get three article 15's in the military.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-13T20:10:28-06:00

ID

74448

Comment

Kaze, I own the site. I don't need to wait for anyone to tell me how to moderate the site. I am speaking for myself, which I'm quite good at, if I do say so myself. (Smile.) I'll repeat for the record: It's not a site to be used to try to silence people. There is nothing victim-esque about my explaining that basic fact to you. I'm not especially worried about the members of the MAP Coalition; I'm more worried about the actual victims of Melton's two-faced attitude toward young black men in the city—you know, like Michael Black and Evans Welch and some firefighters and police officers who don't toe the Melton line. And all the belittling and attempts at making fun in the world is not going to stop me from speaking up about people's rights being violated. So you might as well save your breath on that one. You got bigger fish to fry. And, 'Fish, think of it as the occasional time-out—not an all-out expulsion. Everyone knows you need to go think about it every now and then. You been good lately, though. The time-outs must be working. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-13T20:43:56-06:00

ID

74449

Comment

Kaze, leave my friend along. You know she's right!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-14T10:23:42-06:00

ID

74450

Comment

Oh yeah, and speaking of Donna kicking all of us the same way, you may not know it, but she hit me in the head with a big old stick a few years ago when she thought I was out of control. She didn't know how much control I had back then.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-14T10:26:38-06:00

ID

74451

Comment

okay AGAIN..I want you to point where I said at ANY time for folks to "shut up" or "be silent" or where I was belittling anyone. That would be tragically contradictory to my own mantra of speaking out. Im gonna have to respectfully ask that you stop doing that. You ARE indeed speaking for yourself since no one else has stepped and truth be told Donna often use the fact that this IS your site to condescend to folks who don't necessarily agree with YOU. And I think coming from me you would at least take a look at that. But if not...thats cool too because again..its your site. But in going back through. NEVER said folsk should be silent. NEVER said it was cool to beat a handcuffed subject YET in post after post you asked me to STOP doing that. What I DID say is that I have little patience for those who ONLY want to talk...and thats not belittling anyone. that's my opinion. and you must respect that.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T11:15:51-06:00

ID

74452

Comment

Its totally ridiculous to insinuate on here that I or anyoone else is trying to stop you from speaking out about peoples rights being violated. And just as a casual observer sometimes, 'Fish, and some others who have offered sharp criticisms contradictory to yours are banned or given a time-out and to an outside observer...guess what...it could be deemed as bullying...think about it. Just as you had a problem with my "blabbering" comment I have a problem with grown men being given a "time out" because their comments, however loony, have pissed you off. That's slanting a discussion IMO. And again Im coming straight from the heart with this and maybe you'll take some of that into consideration. Your passion doesnt trump mine..So just like you I will NEVER stop pointing out those who complain and talk but sit back and DO nothing. (and that doesnt apply to you so no need to feel attacked)So you can stop wasting breath on that. YOU too have bigger fish(Kingfish) to fry LOL. But if you wish to retort that by saying 'its my site and I can moderate as I wish' then I totally understand. it's coooool!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T11:27:11-06:00

ID

74453

Comment

Kaze, the only disrespectful or mean thing I've ever witnessed you do was debate Justjess when you were clearly mad and angry. You soon realized it and back away some. I think some people believe you're soft on the maya's indiscretions, and would never challenge or criticize him roughly or even principally.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-14T11:28:16-06:00

ID

74454

Comment

Ive criticized..exactly how I need to criticize on the subject. Im just not frothing at the mouth about it as I have on some other issues. And that's where the problem comes in. and justjess proved her motives when pressed, but AGAIN *I* was the one that was challenged by Donna. Justjess was the only person here I had a problem with EVER because she was CLEARLY an H.J. cronie and thus her opinions were slanted in my view. and if Donna didnt actually agree with her she would have called her on it. Yep I got angry( waaay out of character) and backed off. But my point was proven. I call em like I see em. I have some problems with this administration, I wrote a column about it, and outside of that I don't see where my views are any different. Im just not vehemently calling for the mayor's head on a platter and maybe that peeves some people. All I say is...READ THE COLUMN! We're all clearly on the same page. Present me with some other options and we can talk but in the last election..there were two choices, I chose the mayor. If those same two choices were presented again today..Id probably not vote at all.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T11:54:30-06:00

ID

74455

Comment

Its always about you.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-14T11:57:27-06:00

ID

74456

Comment

not following 'Fish

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T12:01:35-06:00

ID

74457

Comment

What I mean is...HUH?!?

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T12:02:19-06:00

ID

74458

Comment

just having some fun cuz your last two posts were about you and your motivations and thoughts.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-14T12:11:09-06:00

ID

74459

Comment

I hate to say this but it is obvious that Donna has gotten on to some personal things here. Maybe the coward thing set her off, or maybe the fact that I said I might support frank again simply because no one is doing anything else. But fact is, still, i never said DONNA IS A COWARD. I said AND MEANT...(and before you go look for the post to repost what my orginial post was...this is what you need to know)...I FEEL LIKE SITTING HERE TALKING AND DOING NOTHING IS SEEMINGLY THE ACT OF A COWARD. Now, in light of recent posts, I can feel you Donna. You do what you do, but you don't organize (in that way). You don't march, or protest....you discuss. Great! That's what you do! But at the end of the day when you have given all the necessary information....tell me in your idea of a better day....what are we to do with that information! As a citizen of Jackson, how do you suggest that the information that this publication THAT YOU OWN should be used in order to dismiss this mayoral problem we have. And I really don't care what you say Mrs. Ladd, you do have a problem with getting emotional and passionate just like the rest of us. You make it seem like you are a professional and you are not bothered by some of the things you read here. You so clearly are! Then you come back and say, I love this person, I respect this person....that's why I play with them or that's why I'm comfortable. When really all your doing is justifying you tirade. That's fine, but when others do it....you kick them off YOUR board. Now that seems to be unfair....note the word SEEMS....I don't want you to think i'm not only calling you a coward but a unfair coward! Ha! And you're right....your site, your rules, do as you choose...but seems like when Frank had that attitude ....my city, my rules, kiss my azz....you didn't seem to like that. You felt he had some form of obligation to the people of the city to not behave that way...but I guess that's different for a magazine....

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-14T15:42:25-06:00

ID

74460

Comment

I also investigate, Queen, although I am amused at the idea that all I and my staff do is sit around and gossip and discuss all day. ;-) There is nothing "personal" coming from me, toward you or anyone else, Queen. I don't even know who you are, so I'm not exactly emotionally invested in a big angst-fest with an anonymous reader on a Web site. I deal with people all the time who don't agree with me, and many who do, and my self-esteem isn't reliant on everyone liking me or what I do or my "behavior." The only thing that I feel particularly strong about in this whole string of poo and goo is that we do *not* offer the forum for people to try to silence other views. So don't do it, whether joking or not. As the owner of the site, I have the right to challenge what is posted here, and the rules of engagement, and talk back to people who are making accusations of others. That means I have to get a bit saucy and even personal sometimes. Beyond that, I don't really care what people think about my "behavior," and I apologize freely when there is the need. But I don't apologize for talking back to people who have made some of the statements you have made to others, and then got offended that people responded in kind. BTW, there is no problem with emotion and passion; note that those things aren't banned in the user agreement. Trolling for personal arguments are, and unfortunately, I'm in the hot seat of being the one to talk back to trolls and people who get over-zealous in a way that can squelch conversation. (The alternative is simply banning without explaining why.) Thus, y'all are stuck with me whether you like my behavior or not. You may not think it's fair, but hey, you can always go be the "queen" of your own site if you don't like it here. ;-) Here, though, play by the rules and you're welcome to stick around. But don't make it personal and then complain about it being personal. That doesn't make a lick o' sense, and I'll boot you if you keep doing it without blinking an eye. We don't want to turn into the Montel Williams show here. Icky. (Smile) (Just so you know, you don't have to call me "Mrs.," especially since I'm not married, and wouldn't use that title if I were, due to personal preference. Donna is fine; I'm a first-name kind of gal.) Lata.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-14T16:34:57-06:00

ID

74461

Comment

Well, look ahere.... Donna, fine. I think that as long as we are sending messages across a computer it will never be easy to determine when one is "offended". You have not offended me, nor has anyone else here. I don't believe or feel as you do (or them...whoever you're talking about that supposedly offended me or I offended...the only one in here that has been offended is you) but I digress, but that doesn't mean that I'm offended. I rarely agree with you. I rarely agree with many of you. But if this site is for open discussion then I feel I ought to be able to do that. I am not concerned in the least about how petty things get when backs are to the wall in here. I know you don't know who I am, and I have no earthly idea who you are except Donna Ladd of the JFP. However, you have demonstrated on several occassions that you too get miffed in here and you too take things personally although seemingly you won't admit that. Anyway Donna, still keep up your investigative efforts and turning us on to new and improved ways to discuss Frank. We can keep talking for about another year or so or better yet lets just keep talking until his term is over....yeah, that works. At least we will be articulate and free to discuss! patoooie

Author

Queen601

Date

2007-02-14T16:45:32-06:00

ID

74462

Comment

Thanks, Queen. Ciao.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-14T16:55:56-06:00

ID

74463

Comment

"Trolling for personal arguments..." If "trolling" is clearly defined and stated then cool. I personally was not familiar with the term until I started blogging. But as I said earlier, Im saying this purely as an outsider to some former bloggers getting banned or suspended. If trolling is only defined but what YOU say it is or based on how you feel about a particular subject..then that doesnt help anyone. Otherwise, you're no better that the other sites that Ive heard you condemn in the past like the C-L's and Mr. Lange's. Your views are different than a lot of those folks but have you ever been put on "time-out" or has anyone been put on time out from those other sites? Cuz a lot of folks from over here have popped up on other sites blogging (Knol comes to mind). 'Fish may be out there sometimes but I swear that fella reeeeally catches it. LOL

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T16:58:11-06:00

ID

74464

Comment

Likewise the term "personal"..which could hold different definitions for different people. But if it is your site and you can ban who you wish whenever you wish then I think THAT should be clearly defined because otherwise folks may get the impression that they are free to say what they wish in an open forum when clearly they aren't...Especially if its an issue that you a clear cut opinion on. and I think that's what Queen is saying.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T17:03:17-06:00

ID

74465

Comment

Don't worry about 'Fish. We joke about it, but he has been suspended twice. Once, after an idiot from another site sent an expletive-laden message pretending to be him and another time after he really offended someone personally. He apologized, and we let him back in. Ultimately, I think he's got a great heart, and I like him. However, liking someone doesn't mean that someone can come on here and try to pick personal fights (which is the basic definition of "trolling.") Debate is one thing; a bunch of ugly snipes at other people is another. And I, and some other folks here, decide. And our decisions have worked great to date, with the exact result we want—a site with intelligent conversation and many views, with few personal strings (like this one has become). Sometimes the moderation offends people, and that's inevitable. And if you don't think we're any better than other sites, that's fine, Kaze. I don't actually believe you, though. ;-) If we were like other sites, many of the voices here would be drowned out immediately with personal, anonymous attacks, and they would simply quit trying and leave because of three or four buttwipes. The JFP has a very special site going, with many voices, precisely because we do exactly what we do, and nothing is going to change about that. Otherwise, I have to go out of town to teach this weekend, so if y'all don't mind, I'm going to bow out of this particular party to get ready to go. Y'all don't hurt each other, now.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-14T17:09:03-06:00

ID

74466

Comment

I thought this was a news site for the most part. www.msaclu.org if you feel like organizing. Nsombi is pretty cool.

Author

jd

Date

2007-02-14T17:10:55-06:00

ID

74467

Comment

Oh, and Kaze, the dirty little secret is that we've "banned" very few users over the years. Mostly, the same guy over and over again, who got really ugly. Most of the folks you hear on other sites saying they were "banned" by the JFP weren't; they left because they didn't like their statements being challenged. But don't tell anyone about our low ban rate; it might hurt our wonderful rate of deterrence. Otherwise, Kaze, the JFP is ultimately a media site, and a privately owned business. We have never said that anyone is welcome to post anything they want. That would be very stupid of us to do, and would limit the forum's potential immensely. We invite people to debate, civilly, a variety of issues. If they play by the rules, we continue to offer them the privilege of posting here. It's that simple. Gotta fly. (Literally.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-14T17:13:32-06:00

ID

74468

Comment

Kaze writes: Likewise the term "personal"..which could hold different definitions for different people. But if it is your site and you can ban who you wish whenever you wish then I think THAT should be clearly defined It is, dude. Read the User Agreement: 10. All user agreement decisions are up to the owners and managers of the Jackson Free Press. If you disagree with a decision, or would like to ask us to reinstate you after you are are suspended, please e-mail us directly, not post it on the Web site to further disrupt other discussion. Personally, I like the way this site is moderated--as evidenced by the fact that, next to Donna, I'm by far the most prolific contributor ever. But ultimately it is a subjective decision. Same on my civil liberties site. I've been moderating forums for 16 years, and I've never found any other way to do it that doesn't create more problems than it solves. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-14T17:36:36-06:00

ID

74469

Comment

And I second jay's ACLU recommendation. If you're mad as hell about our mayor but don't know what to do about it, call the ACLU and they'll put you to work. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-14T17:37:44-06:00

ID

74470

Comment

I have been and will continue to do what I do Tom regardless of who's mayor. Ive worked with the ACLU before and many other organizations but have found my way to be a tad more effective. I can go where they fear to tread and do what they can't, for those that aren't often helped. City Hall won't stop me from doing that and actually my point is...It's not stopping anyone from acting. the mayor's not and the council's not..Bush isnt...If you want...anyone can do something. big or small. Those cats need to catch up to me really :-)

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T17:54:28-06:00

ID

74471

Comment

...And it should be clearly stated that bloggers DON'T get to post anything thy want. Because on other sites they do...No, you don't let someone say that someone's mother is a whore obviously LOL but if youre allowing free flowing discussion, debating, arguing, whatever, where I come from you got to roll with what comes.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-14T18:01:05-06:00

ID

74472

Comment

King, why did you get the article 15's?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-02-14T18:06:29-06:00

ID

74473

Comment

can't keep my mouth shut. imagine.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-14T18:09:00-06:00

ID

74474

Comment

Shocking! Were the punishments severe?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-02-14T18:15:27-06:00

ID

74475

Comment

nah, just busted a couple of times. Soldier aint a soldier unless he's been busted. Funny thing is, most guys I know that've been busted are the ones I'd want to go into combat with me.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-14T18:17:55-06:00