Ellington

There's an ongoing debate over whether to recommission the Jackson-Evers International Airport as the Medgar Evers International Airport, but I'm more worried about the names that we're already commemorating.

Many of Jackson's landmarks are named after our most brutal and notorious white supremacists. It struck me particularly hard this morning as I staggered out of bed and looked at the front page of the Clarion-Ledger to see Paul Minor, son of the great civil rights journalist Bill Minor, walking out of a federal building in handcuffs. The federal building is, of course, the James O. Eastland Building--named after the outspokenly racist senator who often worked in coordination with the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission, the segregationist group set up in the 1950s to uphold the state's segregation laws in the wake of federal rulings mandating desegregation. Or, more to the point, to hatchet the lives and careers of anyone who worked for integration, along with the lives and careers of their families. Schoolteachers, for example, were targeted for retribution because their husbands supported civil rights. The group had a friendly relationship with the White Citizen's Council, the "uptown Klan" that supported segregation and the general oppression of blacks by using lawsuits, boycotts, and other forms of harassment, and occasionally by leaking the license plate numbers and home addresses of civil rights activists and "uppity" blacks to the real Klan so that more extreme and illegal measures could be taken.

Now, it's no secret that federal laws targeting drug offenders hit young black men the hardest. So I found myself wondering what kind of message we send, as a culture, when young black men are led in handcuffs to 10- or 20-year prison sentences on drug charges from a building that bears the name of one of Mississippi's most notoriously and overwhelmingly racist figures.

The Sovereignty Commission was founded in '56, but it did the bulk of its early work during the years 1960 to 1964--when the notoriously segregationist Ross Barnett was governor of Mississippi. "[T]he Negro is different," Barnett once famously said, "because God made him different to punish him." It was Barnett who stood in the way in 1962 when James Meredith attempted to become, and ultimately became, the first African-American student to attend the University of Mississippi. Barnett never really repented of his views. "Generally speaking," he later boasted, "I'd do the same things again."

So what do we call the large, dirty body of water that in many respects marks a point of transition from the predominantly-black city of Jackson to the predominantly-white suburbs to the north? Why, the Ross Barnett Reservoir, of course. And what better way to honor his segregationist legacy?

Eastland and Barnett do not deserve to have landmarks named after them. Before we start worrying about adding Medgar Evers' name to more monuments, I think maybe we should consider honoring his legacy by removing from our monuments the names of those disgusting officials who no doubt experienced overwhelming joy on the day of his assassination. To do anything else is to just spackle over a racist history--to demand forgiveness without repenting. If we're serious about honoring Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King Jr., and the other heroes of the civil rights movement after whom our leaders are more than happy to name monuments, we should be prepared to blot out the names of their oppressors. Anything less than that would be an insult to the legacy of the civil rights movement.

Previous Comments

ID

105598

Comment

Tom, thank you for bringing this up. I think, as part of our evolution, Mississippians need to take a hard, unflinching look at who, and what, we're honoring in our state.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-05T13:00:44-06:00

ID

105599

Comment

At the rate we're going, I think I'd rather strip names off every public building to avoid all the arguments. Otherwise you end up confusing everyone. I mean, it's not like Eastland and Barnett mean anything to me, but then Evers doesn't have anything to do with my history either. I dunno. Can we name it after Louis LeFleur? :)

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-05T13:13:24-06:00

ID

105600

Comment

Is it really about avoiding all the arguments? With due respect, Evers has plenty to do with your history, Ironghost. There is only one history.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-05T13:28:22-06:00

ID

105601

Comment

You guys are getting a new Federal Courthouse pretty soon. Who is it going to be named after? Or like Ironghost said why after anyone. The Capitol Buildings are not named after anyone nor is the City Hall.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-04-05T13:29:13-06:00

ID

105602

Comment

The problem is, Mr Evers doesn't feel like a part of my history. I know he's a part of the history of Mississippi, but when you get to it I feel like I'm lumped in with the Eastland/Barnett crowd rather than the bunch who get the mess of that generation splattered on them. Which brings up my aversion to naming anything after anyone. It'll offend someone, someday. Why bother? Heck, it took me years until someone told me who Allen Thompson was. :)

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-05T13:40:41-06:00

ID

105603

Comment

Yes Allen Thompson is the mayor that rasied the viaduct over Mill street. That was his big deal. Now of course it is being clad in a really nice facade. Oh yes....Ole "which one of you Gentlemen is Mr. Meridith" Ross Barnett and ole James O "backroom dealin" Eastland....are caricatures of themselves now.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-04-05T14:24:04-06:00

ID

105604

Comment

Ironghost- Your response regarding Evers not 'feel like part of my history' is WEAK.... and unacceptable. The work Evers did in MS, for MS is HISTORY!!! People of Color, native people, women and other ethinic, religious minorities are 'lumped' with white racist, anti-semitic, misogynists. Buildings, schools, and holidays-both federal and state honor such individuals. And let us not forget the whole confederate emblem on state flags-that do not incorporate EVERYONE... I'd rather you and those who share similiar views, be honest about your feelings instead of making excuses as to why hisotrical people of color should not be honored in an equal capacity.

Author

Jackson Area NOW

Date

2006-04-05T15:09:22-06:00

ID

105605

Comment

Ironghost writes: Which brings up my aversion to naming anything after anyone. It'll offend someone, someday. So let's offend people someday. That's how we make progress--there was a time when it wasn't offensive to name buildings after Eastland and Barnett, obviously, but if that time has passed then we can move on. I think it's time we had a James Meredith Reservoir. That would really drive home the point that history made dust and ashes out of Barnett's policies, even if the social institutions that prop it up still live on. As far as whose heritage is represented by whom: You know, it's funny. There was this big debate a few years back about whether to call Martin Luther King Jr. Day by its proper name, to call it Robert E. Lee Day, or to call it Heritage Day. What I said then, and what I say now, is that my heritage is Martin Luther King Jr., not Robert E. Lee. And I don't think I need to have black skin to say that Martin Luther King Jr., Medgar Evers, James Meredith--that these are my people, and that James Eastland and Ross Barnett are not. Yeah, I'm white, and yeah, that means I'm going to spend the rest of my life medicating this white privilege disease I've got. But that doesn't mean that I have a segregationist heritage. And neither, my friend, do you. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-05T16:45:08-06:00

ID

105606

Comment

James Eastland was one of Mississippi's U.S. senators (and an avowed segregationist) but he never served as head of the Sovereignty Commission. During the 60's there was a guy named Burke who was head of the commission. I suppose he continued as head until it was shut down during the Waller administration in the 70s. My mom for years was the program director for the state arts commission, and their office was straight across the hall from the Sovereignty Commission. When they were shut down I remember they were pretty sloppy about cleaning out the office and some of the records (which were then ordered sealed by the Legislature) were actually left collecting dust in the old office. One of the most intetesting things I remember was wandering in there and finding an old Super 8 film that they had commissioned to document activity at a early 70's outdoor rock concert in Louisiana called the "Celebration of Life." Pictures of lotsa hippies smoking weed and swimming nekkid & such. Oh, the ways they found to use public money. There were also a lot of back issues of Jackson's old underground newspaper "Kudzu" lying around. I still have most of those. Ed

Author

ed inman

Date

2006-04-05T19:33:15-06:00

ID

105607

Comment

Ouch. Thanks, Ed--that was sloppy on my part. I "knew" Eastland headed up the Sovereignty Commission, so I didn't bother to fact-check it. Duly corrected. He did work extensively with the Sovereignty Commission, and was one of its staunchest supporters, but he never actually headed it up. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-05T20:42:08-06:00

ID

105608

Comment

You know what, Tom, I don't give a damn about whose name is on a building, whether its a dead white Klansman or a dead civil rights activist, it has no bearing on the problems facing our community TODAY. Like the state flag, it is a distraction from dealing with the issues that our plague our community, particularly its young people, such as drugs, teen pregnancy, underfunded and dilapidated public schools, lack of access to quality healthcare, rampant immorality, poverty, and a lack of respect for life and property. I'm so sick of being told I should care about whose name is on a street or building when there are so many other more pressing issues to be angry or outraged about. Hell, half the people who get processed in the Eastland Building don't even know who he was and what he and Barnett stood for. Maybe if they did they would have the good common sense to quit the behaviors that make the modern era racists like them feel justified in their beliefs.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-05T21:14:02-06:00

ID

105609

Comment

Modern era racists would feel justified in their beliefs regardless, ejeff. Racism isn't rational. It wasn't rational when whites created the circumstances that now "justify" their beliefs; it isn't rational now. And I don't think any of this is a distraction--not the names, not the flag. We have visibly racist institutions. We have institutions that tell black youth "We don't value you." And then we rail about "a lack of respect for life and property." That's why Cosby's speech, by the way, got me fired up; it's not that he was necessarily wrong about everything, but it makes about as much sense to lecture to an entire community on how bad it is for reacting to poverty and institutional racism as it does to lecture a car battery on how bad it is for running out of juice. This is an institutional problem, and the fact that we revere people like Barnett, like Eastland, that we still have the Confederate flag flying high--it's all part of the same complex. Plus changing the names is a good first step, a way of saying that we're at least interested in solving the other problems because we've made the preliminary effort to solve the problems we can solve. Waiting until crime statistics don't lean as heavily on black youth to attack institutional racism is like waiting until your toothache goes away before you get the cavity fixed. Most of the problems you describe are impossible to solve in the short term because of political gridlock. We have crumbling schools because we have a government run by people who think private Christian schools should be the only ones available, we have a high drug rate because we have a system that spends many times more money on locking kids up for possession than it does on actually helping them beat addiction, we have high teen pregnancy because idiot politicians do everything within their power to make contraception (including emergency contraception) and abortion unavailable to teenagers, and we have rampant immortality, poverty, and so forth because of people like Ross Barnett and James Eastland. It's a shame that they got to live in their wine-and-cheese world while they paid down another installment on the ghetto plan. But the bottom line is that this is a problem we can solve, and it's not a "distraction." Not in the slightest. It cuts right to the heart of the problem. Verily, verily, I say unto you, until we get that damned Confederate flag off the capitol building, we will never have a racially integrated culture--because segregation is the only thing that allows for such a wide divergence of opinion between black and whites on whether it ought to be there. And until we have a racially integrated culture, we will always have a ghetto and minorities will always be the people in that ghetto. There is no such thing as separate but equal because separate is, by definition, unequal. That was the message of Brown v. Board of Education. And that is the message we need to keep hammering home to our elected representatives until we have spat on every vestige of the segregationist era. Our state has sinned, and our state needs to repent. And getting Eastland and Barnett's names off their monuments is probably the easy part. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-05T23:47:14-06:00

ID

105610

Comment

Rep. Fleming, since you're reading this and would probably be pleased to see a question from me that isn't abortion-related: Do you happen to know who, exactly, is responsible for decisions about what we name federal buildings? And do any of y'all know who is responsible for naming the reservoir? I want to get something done here. I'm dead serious about this. And it shouldn't be hard to build some momentum on this--any politician who doesn't realize the potential GOLD MINE of great PR that would come from championing this cause is a damn fool. Heck, think of how great this would be for Trent Lott's legacy. Or Haley Barbour's reelection prospects. And God bless 'em if they get it done. I don't care who does it, or why. I just think it's time we stopped sending handcuffed black kids into a building that has James Eastland's name on it, and high time we stopped driving past a reservoir named after Ross Barnett when we're heading to white suburbia. That's sick, folks. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-05T23:59:11-06:00

ID

105611

Comment

Okay, Tom, lets say for the sake of argument that we change the name of the courthouse to say...The Henry J. Kirksey Building. And change the Reservior to...The Goodman, Swerner, and Chaney Reservior. Then afterwards, we can have a big frakking press conference where Stokes, Tisdale, et al all stand around shaking hands and throwing up black power signs that we've finally eliminated another symbol of the racist South. Then what? Why stop there? Lets find some other "offensive" names to strip off public institutions. Heck, let's change Jackson, a name that honors a president whose claim to fame was the infamous Trail of Tears that nearly wiped out the Native American population, into something more PC. "Eversville", maybe? No, wait, "Medgar Wiley Eversville" (wouldn't want people to not know the guy's full name, even if there is a street, library, and municipal park already bearing his entire name!) Or my hometown of Vicksburg, named after its founder Newit Vick. I'm sure he was a racist...let's rename it as well. Pemberton Square Mall...named after a Confederate general... should be renamed as well. The list goes on and on and on. I know I sound snarky, but again, I'm tired of being told that I should be offended by stuff that doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things. I agree with all of your points about poverty, crime, education, etc. And I agree that those are long term policies to effect change, but when are we going to honesty start to address the problem? For me, people like Bill Cosby and Tavis Smiley, while somewhat at opposite ends of the political spectrum, are on the right track in terms of making Black America accountable for its actions, as well as developing a strategy to make our issues more defined and forcing politicians to acknowledge them if they want our vote. I want Black Unity, Tom, not platitudes from apologists who want to eliminate symbols to make us feel like we are making progress when we really aren't. When John F. Kennedy challenged America to reach the moon by the end of the 1960's he acknowledged that it wouldn't be an easy task. But as he said, we had to do it because it was hard, because it would take a concerted effort and will to make it happen. That same kind of energy could be used to solve many of the problems in Black America. But the effort has to come from without as well as from within. And just as it took decades to get us into the shape that we are in, it will take decades to get us out of it. But we have to have the willingness and unity required to effect change. Changing the name of building or a flag is relatively easy, and that's why people like Stokes rally around these kind of causes because it's much easier to gin up outrage about a GD flag than it is to rally a neighborhood to go after drug dealers, or to rally for legal reform to get criminals off of the street.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T07:05:06-06:00

ID

105612

Comment

TH: It is the responsibility of Congress to name federal buildings. Congressman Thompson has already filed a bill to name the new Federal Courthouse after R. Jess Brown, the first African-American lawyer admitted to the Mississippi Bar. Thompson was also responsible for naming the Main Post Office after Medgar Evers. I am unsure historically who was responsible for naming the reservoir, I don't know if it was an act of the Legislature or the district that manages the reservoir. More than likely it was the Legislature.

Author

Rep. Erik Fleming

Date

2006-04-06T10:10:55-06:00

ID

105613

Comment

I actually introduced a bill, Ironghost, to name the Employment Security Building after Senator Kirksey, since it is located in the district he lived in.

Author

Rep. Erik Fleming

Date

2006-04-06T10:18:26-06:00

ID

105614

Comment

Interesting commentary between Tom and Ejeff. It seems Ejeff doesn't understand why there are so many symbols of white greatness in the Capital Building in Washington D.C., and elsewhere, and hardly any of black greatness although blacks (slaves) builded the the Capital Building, and contributed greatly to this country's success and preeminence. Symbols are important to everyone all over the world, and they tell stories of what and whom the leaders considered and consider important. I do understand Ejeff's personal concerns about more immediate problems, but I don't understand how he can be so smart but not see the importance of symbols. He should read some of the research done and data used in Brown v. Board of Education. Assuming you are a black man, Ejeff; try raising your black children in a world with nothing but white symbols of greatness in your house and elsewhere, followed by never having any symbols of great blackness or ever saying anything goodness of black folks then watch who they will think is superior and will try to emulate.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T10:52:44-06:00

ID

105615

Comment

I meant good of black folks.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T10:54:31-06:00

ID

105616

Comment

Ejeff, also, watch who the child will think is inferior. Compare the midset, outlook, mental health, and prodcution of the child who believes he's superior to the child who thinks he's inferior. Racism does great psychological damage to everyone.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T11:00:53-06:00

ID

105617

Comment

Ok, I was a little distracted listening to something else. I have supported name changes in the past and will probably continue to do so. But it becomes pretty sensitive when you want to take one name off in support of another name. It looks like a power grab more than anything else. The airport is a good example of compromise. The airport is named Evers-Jackson International and the airfield is named after Thompson. Thompson was a segregation-era mayor who enforced the law with zeal (i.e. Thompson's Tank), but he was instrumental in the development of the airport we all use. A lot of times we name things after politicians who were major players in getting that particular project done. There is a room named after TL on my campus, the alumni was not too happy about that, but he got credit for slipping some dollars JSU's way. But not all African-Americans who have buildings named after them are really honorable, IMHO. At JSU, the School of Education Building is named after the Rev. Joseph Jackson, an alumnus. Jackson, a star athlete during college, served the longest tenure as president of the National Baptist Convention. Before he died, he gave a major donation to JSU, thus naming the building after him. But the Chicago alums were upset because of his personal dislike for MLK. Dr. King ran against him for president during the early years of the movement, I believe in 1956. Jackson won a bitter, close election. That led to MLK forming the SCLC. Jackson remained angry with King throughout life, so much that when the street where Jackson's church in Chicago was located was re-named King Drive, Jackson had a new front entrance built on Cottage Grove, so that his address would not have MLK's name on it. That history led to his name being taken off the Education Building, even though the building is still named after him.

Author

Rep. Erik Fleming

Date

2006-04-06T11:09:32-06:00

ID

105618

Comment

"But not all African-Americans who have buildings named after them are really honorable, IMHO." Maybe that was a little harsh. The more accurate thing to say is you can find fault in anyone that you name a buidling after, but it is up to the entity in charge to make that decision, based on financial and/or historical contributions.

Author

Rep. Erik Fleming

Date

2006-04-06T11:15:50-06:00

ID

105619

Comment

ejeff, I am tired of "making Black America accountable." Black America has been being made "accountable" for 450 years; that's the problem. It's time for white America to be made accountable. I also don't buy into the idea that "Black Unity" is necessary before any progress is discussed on civil rights issues; there will never be total solidarity between and among members of a single race in relative peacetime, period, and anyone who believes otherwise should take a basic introductory course in social psychology. That's just not the way the world works. Eastland and Barnett's names are a symbol of white segregationist power. You may see their removal as a "black power" initiative, but I don't really see how. We are not proposing replacing their names with those of Louis Farrakhan and Elijah Muhammad. We are simply proposing replacing their names with the names of people who did not dedicate the best years of their public careers to destroying lives. If we had a Jeffrey Dahmer Federal Building and a Ted Bundy Reservoir, I hope you would agree with me that the names would need to be changed. As far as Andrew Jackson goes, that's an 170-year-old national problem, and yes, he's disgraceful, and no, I wouldn't shed any tears if we took his name off the city, but I don't think that really needs to happen. Eastland and Barnett are another story. Most people who are alive in Mississippi today were alive before Eastland and Barnett died, and many were alive when they were still in power. If you weren't, I guarantee your parents or grandparents were. You're really comparing apples and moon rocks when you suggest that the name of Andrew Jackson is as damaging to us as the names of Eastland and Barnett. And I concur with Ray. I don't see how someone of your obvious intelligence level can believe that symbols are not important. If nothing else, consider what it says about the racial isolation of our state's white population that the Confederate flag is still flying from the capitol by popular referendum. If we lived in an integrated society, the majority of whites would have voted with the majority of blacks to remove it simply because they would understand that we have a shared heritage and that our flag needs to reflect that. The Confederate flag is a testimony to segregation. That's what it was intended to be when it was made our state flag in the years leading up to the civil rights movement, and that's what it remains to this day. I don't think we can tear down that damned flag anytime soon, but surely we can at least stop sending black youths to prison in a building named after James Eastland and marking the transition to white suburbia with a reservoir named after Ross Barnett. Surely we can at least do that. You may not think it's important, but I'm sure a lot of legislative things happen that you don't consider important. Let's at least stop honoring the villains of the civil rights movement with monuments. We can do that much. Their legacies do not deserve that privilege. Let's address that--for the sake of justice, if nothing else. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-06T12:00:11-06:00

ID

105620

Comment

Rep. Fleming, thanks for filling me in on this stuff. I appreciate it. I had actually not heard about Rep. Thompson's bill, but I think R. Jess Brown would be a great choice and I hope the bill passes. I understand what you mean about philanthropy. Ross Barnett may well have built that reservoir, in a sense. But I think he needs to be held accountable for his racism, in death if not in life. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-06T12:24:15-06:00

ID

105621

Comment

Jackson Area NOW: I'm offended by the tone of your reply to me. To blindly assume I'm something I'm not is sloppy thinking. As for the Eastland/Barnett thing... Eastland would be easy to change, Barnett's name would require a public vote, as everyone up there would deserve a chance to rename it. It's simple, and easy.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-06T14:00:18-06:00

ID

105622

Comment

If being a white supremicist a half-century ago is the litmus test then I'd submit that there are probably a lot more buildings and reservoirs that need renaming. We could start by removing the names of virtually every state official prior to the 70s. Eastland and Barnett were hardly alone in their misguided beliefs. Sad, but true. I tend to agree with Rep. Fleming on this one--taking one name off a building (or reservoir) to replace it with another can be a very sensitive emotional issue, and one that I'm not sure I am as strongly opinionated about as is Tom and some others. The reason, for example, the reservoir is named for Ross Barnett is that he was governor when it was commissioned--not specifically because he was (or is) being "honored" as a white supremacist. True, Ol' Ross (as Bill Minor likes to call him) will forever be remembered mostly for his obstructionist efforts to prevent James Meredith from being admitted to Ole Miss and the deadly campus riot that followed. But that's not to say that necessarily *everything* he did as governor (like signing the law to create the reservoir) was entirely wrong or mean-spirited. FWIW many of Barnett's family members still reside in the Jackson area, including his own daughter who has spent most of her professsional career as a school teacher--teaching at Lanier High School--the historically black inner city Jackson high school. She could have undoubtedly taught at Prep or St. Andrews or any other "elite" school, but she chose to teach at Lanier out of a personal sense of duty to help the city's most underprivleged students have a better future. I'm not mentioning that as a way to "excuse" her father's actions as a politically-motivated segregationist almost a half-century ago--just pointing out that there is more to the Barnett family's legacy of service to this city and state than some people acknowledge.

Author

ed inman

Date

2006-04-06T14:06:44-06:00

ID

105623

Comment

Walk all around the capital mall, and you will see symbol after symbol of white greatness and hardly anything else. Many of us black folks, along with my fraternity, are well on the way of changing some of that with a monument to Martin Luther King. The United Staes is multi-racial and with many great contributions from many races of people. Symbols should reflect that. Why shouldn't they?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T14:12:26-06:00

ID

105624

Comment

Oh heck, since I'm already in hot water with some people. ;) I'm all for including everyone. Can we lose the vindictiveness, however?

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-06T14:17:44-06:00

ID

105625

Comment

Surely, you're right, Ed. Good and outstanding people can come from any family or legacy. I try not to blame others for what thier relatives did, especially the one who disavowed their relatives bad actions by carrying themselves contrary or differently. You can love your relatives and still be your own person.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T14:20:10-06:00

ID

105626

Comment

I have no problem with you Ironghost if your'e speaking to me.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T14:22:11-06:00

ID

105627

Comment

Nah, we're cool Ray. :)

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-06T14:23:22-06:00

ID

105628

Comment

I am tired of "making Black America accountable." Black America has been being made "accountable" for 450 years; that's the problem. It's time for white America to be made accountable. I also don't buy into the idea that "Black Unity" is necessary before any progress is discussed on civil rights issues; there will never be total solidarity between and among members of a single race in relative peacetime, period, and anyone who believes otherwise should take a basic introductory course in social psychology. That's just not the way the world works. And I'm tired of people using racism to send us off on tangent campaigns that aren't going to have much impact on the plight of black people in this city, state or country. The black community is not a monolithic thought bloc, but we all share in the same struggle nonetheless. And while I don't agree with most of what Cynthia McKinney or Al Sharpton believe, I still consider them my sista and brotha in the struggle, respectively, and I still try to listen to their views. My problem with your proposal, TH, is that it really is just a "feel-good" measure that does nothing to address real issues. I don't know if YOU are old enough to remember, but there was a time when the black community held each other accountable for bad behavior, when education and achievement were valued instead of demonized, and the neighbors looked out for each other, even in the heyday of Jim Crow segregation, because we knew that we had to stick together against a common enemy. It wasnt' a perfect society, but we had more going for us in terms of unity than we have today. In the last 14 days I've read stories about a man being shot while helping a girl fix a tire, a senseless shootout at a local hospital, 14 cars stolen from a dealership on the crime-plagued Hwy 80 district, and watched a little girl return home after suffering injuries from a drive-by shooting for which no one has been made accountable. All in the black community. These are my issues, TH, not whose name adorns the side of a G-damn building. And I don't care whose name is there as long as the people who continue to terrorize my community are brought to justice. If I had my way, they would see the inside of a coffin instead of a courthouse, but that's my frustration talking. For me the larger issue is how to turn the tide of this almost pathological need among so many in my community (not a majority by any means) to commit such senseless acts against each other. Issues like single motherhood, welfare, and teen pregnancy are the issues that are killing my community, not some long dead white guy. But in a way I do understand and appreciate your sentiment, as I would love to see the white community initiate these kinds of symbolic changes without having to be prompted by marches and protests by the black community for a change. That would be an indicator that at least white people are more sensitive to the plight of our people. But since I've abandoned that hope due to growing cynicism, I prefer that black people work to fix our own problems and address our own needs before striking out at the white community over its hang ups.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T14:26:49-06:00

ID

105629

Comment

I do understand Ejeff's personal concerns about more immediate problems, but I don't understand how he can be so smart but not see the importance of symbols. He should read some of the research done and data used in Brown v. Board of Education. Ray, I can't be intelligent and have a difference of opinion with you, my brotha? :) Perhaps I'm not as well read on some of the sources you cite, but my opinions are based more on trying to develop solutions for black people while trying to work within the framework of this society with all of its shortcomings and injustices. Look, I realize that our contributions have been undervalued in this society. It burns me up whenever I hear white folks talk lovingly about how "this grand, beautiful structure was built in the pre-Civil War era in honor of General So-and-So" knowing in my mind that it was built on of the backs of black slaves. I get offended when I see Rebel flags flying proudly over houses in rural Mississippi, knowing how the people inside would feel about me if I walked to up to their front door. And I understand that symbols are important. Try waving a Nazi swatstika in the face of Jewish person and see how fast their anger rises up. But I place more value on substance over symbolism. Substance for me would be improving our education system to more fully acknowledge the contributions of blacks to the building and advancement of this country 365 days of the year, not just during Black History Month. Substance for me would be putting our youth in check before they have a chance to commit acts that would end up with them appearing in Eastland's courtroom Ray, this is part of the reason we black folk have so many health problems from worrying about stuff that we can't change or doesn't matter in the immediate sense. I believe in picking my fights carefully so as not to wear down my troops, and getting worked up about renaming buildings, streets and landmarks is a never-ending battle that doesn't speak to the larger problem of changing people's hearts and changing policies that hurt us. Moreover, just because you happen to have a problem with a person doesn't automatically mean they have no right to be honored for their contributions, if only to honor their family who may not share their beliefs as Ironhost mentioned. I have no problem with naming a structure after Thomas Jefferson in spite of some of his hypocritcal beliefs, because he did contribute to the establishment of this county. As long as we are honest about his true legacy with all of its flaws. I'm much more interested in seeing people's hearts and minds changed, that is the key to solving society's ills.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T14:47:08-06:00

ID

105630

Comment

Ejeff, we really don't disagree much on anything. I knew your first comment was coming. It's the old standard and it's well-taken. You're right about substance. I'd like to see all those things you mentioned happen too. I'm more concerned about them too than symbols. And I often, at least temporarily, wished the criminals dead rather than prosecuted. Then I wake up. It's a helluva fight for us to get symbolic recognition or emergency necessities. If the majority can't bring themselves to vote for something as simple and cheaply done as changing that flag; don't put any money on the powers-that-be agreeing or rushing to do anything else that does involve spending money, like all the things you beautifully wrote about. Didn't we learn well from the American Indians that one concession leads only to other concessions. Before long there won't be anymore concessions to make? But we don't have to look to the plight of our Indians brothers. We can look to our own history. There is an obvious reason many of the majority race don't want to see symbols that include us, and I know what it is. And I can't accomodate them on this, by actions, silence, or inaction.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T15:23:47-06:00

ID

105631

Comment

This may sound like a cop-out (or perhaps a holdover from the 1990s -- I am thinking about some new sport teams' names), but what about naming buildings, etc. after an idea, concept, or even an event? The Justice Federal Court Building? Okay, that may be a little hokey . . . How about Freedom Reservoir or Liberty Reservoir? On the other hand, I think R. Jess Brown is a GREAT choice for the new federal court building. What a fantastic way to honor a man that under took what must have been an extremely difficult educational journey. I have always been amazed at the trials the now-older female attorneys went through in the 1950s to become lawyers. I can't imagine the difficulties Mr. Brown faced. Perhaps we could make a list of people who have made an impact on Mississippi -- or at least the local area -- so we could present those options as alternatives to Ross Barnett for the Reservoir. I have found that it's always easier to vote for change when you know what the change will be. What about William Winter? In addition to honoring a great man, there's something a little punnish about calling it the Winter Reservoir. :-)

Author

Newt

Date

2006-04-06T15:56:24-06:00

ID

105632

Comment

It's a helluva fight for us to get symbolic recognition or emergency necessities. If the majority can't bring themselves to vote for something as simple and cheaply done as changing that flag; don't put any money on the powers-that-be agreeing or rushing to do anything else that does involve spending money, like all the things you beautifully wrote about. I know what you mean, Ray. And I probably would have been chiming in with you and TH about a few years ago before the State Flag debate. I remember Kenny Stokes railing about the State Flag in the City Council chambers, and his vow to have it removed as a racist symbol in a majority black city. Sure enough, it mysteriously disappeared, even though everyone knew who was accountable. And I'm sure to this day, Stokes and his supporters don't feel an ounce of guilt or shame, after all, they had a right to remove racist symbols from public buildings, right? But it was a Pyrrhic victory, IMO, because ultimately the larger Mississippi culture wasn't ready to let go of the symbol. Which means the hearts and minds of the culture, while certainly a lot more progressive than the days of Ross Barnett and Allen Thompson, still has not yet changed enough. And that's where the real work has to begin before such symbols can be abandoned. And in the meantime, all I'm asking is for black folk to get our act together and make more inroads into addressing our own needs that have resulted from racism, both hidden and overt, and our own dysfunctional self image that continues to allow behavior that doesn't uplift our either our community or society. I worked with poor black kids when I was in Baton Rouge for a couple of summers, trying to encourage them to become more interested in math and science, and I'm really thinking about developing a similar outreach program here. I can find the resources, I just need to commit to the time required. But that would be my small contribution to trying to wipe away the true legacy of racists like the ones in our past and present.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T15:56:26-06:00

ID

105633

Comment

In closing, I just don't have the time or interest in letting names and symbols have power over me. That's all.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T15:58:37-06:00

ID

105634

Comment

Again, I agree, Ejeff. If you have been reading my comments a long time, you know I'm all for us looking out for ourselves, and getting our s@#* together. I quoted a poem months ago called "Ain't No Help On The Way." It a long poem and I only used a few short passages. The moral of the story was for us to get some education, get a job, get a house, save some money, and you want have to wait for help that ain't on the way.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T16:10:52-06:00

ID

105635

Comment

by the way, this morning Cynthia McKinney addressed the House and gave a heartfelt apology and outlined her reasons for reacting as she did at the check point...the nation should accept it and let it go.....over! period! done!. The reaction in Atlanta is relief for her and the security guard. I hope the Grand jury just let's it drop and throws it out.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-04-06T16:20:49-06:00

ID

105636

Comment

by the way, this morning Cynthia McKinney addressed the House and gave a heartfelt apology and outlined her reasons for reacting as she did at the check point...the nation should accept it and let it go.....over! period! done!. The reaction in Atlanta is relief for her and the security guard. I hope the Grand jury just let's it drop and throws it out. Thank goodness. This story has been blown way out of proportion, both by the way she handled it and the way the right-wing bloggers/talk radio/Fox News turned it into the story of the week, mostly because they have hated her for her outspokeness on Iraq and her open dislike for George Bush. While I may not agree with her style, I like that she isn't afraid to make her opinions known, and let the chips fall where they may.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T16:24:59-06:00

ID

105637

Comment

Ejeff, let me say one other thing about symbols and I'm through too. Why do you think foreigners who come here not knowing much about black or white people, after a brief period of being in this country, starts to brown-nose up to whites but looks down on blacks. It's not because of our behavior. White commit crimes, too. It is, in large part, due to all kinds of symbols of superiority, including the neighborhoods we live in and schools. Those are symbols, too.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-06T16:32:23-06:00

ID

105638

Comment

Tom, I have a little confession. When I woke up this morning I was very angry from a dream I had about the little girl who was the victim of the drive by shooting. Couple that with the article I read here in the JFP about last weekends shootings at the Jackson Mall and the UMC, and I'm at the point of exhaustion with all of the senseless crime that happens in this city. Then I read your post and went ballistic, in part because I'm just tired of having to deal with so many fronts in the war on racism. The legacy of racists pricks like Eastland is that we (blacks) have become our own worst enemy, giving segregationists like him power from beyond the grave, and carrying out the Klan's agenda without them firing a shot. Maybe your renaming idea does have merit, if only to send a message that rhetoric like his should not be tolerated or given honor by honoring him. But I wish there was as much outrage about what is happening in the inner city and the problems in our community, and I want solutions and I want them yesterday.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-06T17:12:58-06:00

ID

105639

Comment

One thing, and it's hard, is that we have to stop telling kids in certain neighborhoods that their only option is thuggery. We have to believe in them. We have to understand that baggy pants are fashion -- not a gang sign. We have to believe in our children -- not just condescend to them, or send them into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-06T17:28:40-06:00

ID

105640

Comment

Have any of you noticed if left alone how black and white children get along? It is only when adults chime in with their prejudices that the youth begain to act differently. I think all adults should take a step back and let the young show us how to live together. One of the most beautiful sights to me is seeing our young people doing things together. The former mayor had a youth group with representatives from all the schools in the city it was very nice seeing them working on solutions to a lot of the problems we are having today. Prehaps we need to let the young lead.

Author

jada

Date

2006-04-06T21:26:59-06:00

ID

105641

Comment

jada writes: Have any of you noticed if left alone how black and white children get along? It is only when adults chime in with their prejudices that the youth begain to act differently. I know what you mean. My best friend growing up had a black father and a white mother; it was only when we hit our early teens that we started living in different worlds and kind of drifted. That was a sign of "maturity," I guess. We live on a very strange planet. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-06T23:20:31-06:00

ID

105642

Comment

One thing, and it's hard, is that we have to stop telling kids in certain neighborhoods that their only option is thuggery. We have to believe in them. We have to understand that baggy pants are fashion -- not a gang sign. We have to believe in our children -- not just condescend to them, or send them into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whoa, Donna, whose telling them that? Certainly not me. Like I mentioned earlier, I used to be involved in a program that went to schools to try to get kids interested in math and science, mainly inner city schools. I was also involved in youth ministry at my church which counseled young people on drugs, sex and the value of education. There isn't enough of that going around. Baggy pants may not be a gang sign, but that doesn't make it right. Yesterday when I stopped to get gas at a station on Hanging Moss Road, a young black kid got out of the car in front of me. And as I looked at him, with his pants sagging off his butt, vulgar rap music loud enough to shake the whole area, and the faint smell of weed filling the air around me, I felt the anger I've been feeling the last few days rise up again, because it seems that our young people just don't give a damn about minimum standards. Angry that as offensive as I found this young man to be, that I was also afraid to walk up to him and tell him to a least turn the music down while he was pumping gas because I didn't know what kind of reaction I would have received. Couple that with the kids who play ball in the middle of my street and look at me crazy when I drive up on them, thinking that common sense would tell them to get the hell out of the way, but instead they wait until the last possible second and then look at me crazy for interrupting their game? Again, it's not that these are bad, incorrigible kids, but it's the disrespect for minimum standards that makes me so angry. Yeah, yeah, i know, it's not their fault, right? Society tells them that they can't be anything more than thugs and drug dealers, right? So does that mean I have to tolerate their bad behavior and disrespect? Or get caught up in thinking that it's more important to change the name of a courthouse than to correct the behavior that leads so many of our youth to end up in jail, strung out, or making babies without caring for them? You know why so many people like Tyler Perry shows? It's not because they are very original or always well acted. It's because the title character, Madea, preaches about the values that many of us grew up with, holding children accountable for their actions, not tolertating disrespect to elders or each other, and holding them to minimum standards based on morality. What used to be called good parenting. Not everyone who laughs at the jokes truly understands, but those of us who grew up with those values do. And I have little patience for the line of thinking that says that we as a society should be more understanding or allow these kids to run wild because they are underpriviliged or don't have fathers at home to raise them right. They have to be made to understand that there are consequences to foolishness. The problem is there aren't enough parents, leaders, politicians, educators, screaming at these kids to wake up and to realize that they have the potential to be better and to live better, but they have to work for it. Not everyone is going to respond to it, but there has to be a willingness to reach even a few.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-07T05:46:53-06:00

ID

105643

Comment

Y'know, I wish now I had said something to that young man, if only to let him know that he should think more of himself and the people around him to at least turn his music down and roll his windows up so that the weed smoke wouldn't have been so noticeable. Hell, just because I'm a brotha doesn't mean that I couldn't have been an undercover cop who would have had probable cause to check his vehicle and harass him. That's why its so important that we find a way to reach our young people before the system chokes what little hope they have out completely. That's all I have.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-04-07T08:51:32-06:00

ID

105644

Comment

Jada, I witnessed and experienced the thing about kids of different races having a good time playing together until adult intervention when I was a child. Ejeff, I know of cases where well-intented adults got shot and beat up for trying to chastise some drugged-out and incorrigle kids. Chastise the ones you don't know very carefully, if al all. As I drove my rental car to North Mississippi Monday to visit a client accused of capital murder I realized somebody had left a rap tape by an artist called Gucci Man. I tried to listen to some of it, but just couldn't handle all the profanity. I became afraid that if I continued to listen to all the cursing I might just curse out the Sheriff and all his deputies once I finally reached the jail. Smile. It appears this generation of kids aren't amenable to being raised the way we were. Because of what I choose to do as an occupation, I see hundreds of parents who claim they tried their hardest to raise their kids like they were raised. It didn't work. They lost the child anyway. Outside forces exerted greater influences. For a good example of how different this generation of kids are, consider the case where a 15 year old boy asked his father to use the car. The father said no. A few minutes later, the boys calls his father and tell him the airconditioner isn't blowing air in his room. The vent was on the floor, and as the father was lying on the floor on his stomach checking out the air flow, an angel told him to look up. As he looked up his son was in a downward motion with a butcher knife trying to stab or kill him. What do you do with a child who just tried to kill you (other than put him out)? Girls are often equally bad. I know this is off the subject but I had to say it.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-07T09:44:29-06:00

ID

105645

Comment

Tom, I'll make a deal with you regarding renaming the Ross Barnett Reservoir: You don't tell us what to name $hit in Rankin County, and we won't tell you what to name $hit in Fondren. Deal?

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-09T19:24:01-06:00

ID

105646

Comment

No. How about explaining why people in Rankin County aren't humiliated that they have a reservoir named for an avowed bigot and white supremacist? Then, be sure to tell me how far we've come as a state.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T00:48:20-06:00

ID

105647

Comment

Yeah, I gotta agree here. Curt, what the hell kind of "deal" is that when concurrently, in another thread, you're telling us what we have to do to improve Jackson? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-10T03:30:52-06:00

ID

105648

Comment

Tom, where did I tell you how to improve Jackson? Can you provide the link?

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T10:10:24-06:00

ID

105649

Comment

Donna, one of the great things about living in Rankin County is that we don't have to explain anything to people who live in Jackson.

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T10:34:42-06:00

ID

105650

Comment

And vice versa would be just as true, Mr. Crowley. That is, if you were the spokesman for all of Rankin County or, say, I were the spokeswoman for all of Jackson. But you're not, and I'm not, so we will continue to discuss anything we want to and continue to not give a damn what you think about us having that conversation. With all due respect. If you don't care that Rankin County looks rather back-ass with a big fat resevoir named after an ignorant hick white supremacist, that's your perogative. But you know, you're not the only one who gets an opinion. So get over yourself.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T10:57:56-06:00

ID

105651

Comment

Too bad not all the Rez is in Rankin, Curt. Madison can rename their part what they like, and Jackson can rename it's corner After Medgar Evers, probably. ;)

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-10T14:11:51-06:00

ID

105652

Comment

Nice one, Iron. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T14:22:17-06:00

ID

105653

Comment

You think Madison Countians would feel any different than Rankin Countians? And where is "Jackson's corner?"

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T14:25:56-06:00

ID

105654

Comment

The problem I see with Curt's post, and the predictable retorts that follow, is that the basic question gets thrown back to square one. Everybody goes into defensive mode and nothing is actually resolved or even very rationally discussed. Does it really matter that the eastern half of the rez is in Rankin County or that Ross Barnett was an "avowed bigot and white supremacist?" To the first question the answer is largely no. Rankin (and Madison) officials may have some influence, but they are ultimately impotent to change the name of the rez even if they wanted to. That would have to be done by the state Legislature. A bill would have to be passed by both chambers with support from all parts of the state and signed into law by the governor. So we might as well leave county lines out of it. Should we be "outraged" that the rez is named for Barnett? As I stated before, the reason it's named for him is that he was a political force behind getting the project built, having signed the legislation that created it. That by itself is not sufficient evidence to cause outrage. To say it was named for him specifically as a monument to white supremacy is probably more debatable. It's a charge that by its nature demands a higher level of proof. Do I personally think Barnett was a racist? Yes. Was he any more a racist than a number of other governors that followed him like Paul Johnson, Jr. and John Bell Williams? No, not really. They all ran on platforms of enforcing racial segregation, as did Bilbo, Vardaman, and a whole slew of other governors that preceeded Barnett. And just about all of them have some government project named after them somewhere. Of course, the naming or renaming of any government project for anybody IS a fair political debate. But it's a debate that can only be resolved thorough proper channels. Squabbling about it on a blog isn't going to do much. My advice to Tom or Donna or anyone else who wants to change the name of the rez is to start lobbying their state legislators. Ask that a committee be set up to investigate why the project was originally named for Barnett and determine whether or not that deserves revisiting. I'm sure you would find some support for your cause, particularly within the legislative black caucus for starters. It wouldn't hurt to bring your concerns also to the board of the Pearl River Valley Water Authority, the agency designated by the state to manage the rez. They would undoubtedly have a good bit of influence on this matter as well. Similarly, Curt is welcome to do the same, expressing to our state officials why he would like to see the designation remain as it is. Given that our current legislators seem mostly obsessed with dildos, abortion, and cigarettes, I'm frankly doubtful that changing the name of the rez is going to gain sufficient steam anytime soon. But within the political framework in which we live I believe that's the only body with the legal authority to properly study and/or address this concern.

Author

ed inman

Date

2006-04-10T14:30:00-06:00

ID

105655

Comment

Ed, I don't think it matters *why* it was named for Barnett. Hitler built stuff, too, and we don't go around naming stuff after him once history has told its secrets and exposed the evil. I'm actually not planning to lead a campaign to rename it -- although I would certainly support one with lots of ink. I've got more immediate things on my plate. The Eudora Welty Reservoir sounds great to me personally. Todd already calls it "the Welty Reservoir." I think what matters the most is that people *understand* why it's so offensive, and they won't if we don't talk, and argue, about this. As for Curt's argument, he's being absurd to even present himself as someone to speak for all of Rankin County, or anywhere else. He is speaking for himself and no one else, and we all know it. Should he crawl off his high horse a bit, everyone wouldn't be tempted to wipe up the floor with his silly butt. His methods just aren't going to get him anywhere here.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T14:35:12-06:00

ID

105656

Comment

Donna, if you don't believe my opinion is consistent with a majority of Rankin Countians, do a poll and see how many folks agree with me and how many agree with Tom. Maybe you can get WAPT to help. Ya'll couldn't do any worse than the "How bad does Melton suck?" poll recently conducted.

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T14:39:54-06:00

ID

105657

Comment

Curt, you're being incredibly stupid now with your comments about the poll. Please leave. You're not here for discussion. You're here to troll. I hear there are good mud pits where ex-JFP trolls roll around together. Go find one. You'll also note that neither your nor I said anything about the "majority" of anything before your last post. You had ordained yourself the Speaker of Rankin–proclaiming that all of Rankin County just adores having the name of that chump on the reservoir. And you're wrong, just from problems of pure logic. However, do the majority of Rankinians agree with you? I don't give a damn. That's not the point. Why don't y'all name the boat ramps or such on the Rankin sides after every white supremacist y'all can come up? And then be sure to whine when people start saying that maybe some of you haven't "changed" as much as you like to pretend? Doesn't matter to me. I'll still talk all I want about how tragic it is that so many of our public institutions are named after old racists and demagogues that tried to keep *our* state in the dark ages and the people hating each other. And if like you say, the majority of Rankin County still lives in the past -- which I don't believe -- that I feel great compassion for y'all who still have hate in your hearts and aren't willing to face history. Now, I fully realize that you're getting what you want -- a good spankin' so you can go whine about how the bad ole JFP doesn't respect your opinion. Guess what: Respect begets respect, and you ain't shone none, boy. And I'm too damn busy these days covering actual day-to-day events for patience with your ilk. So this is last call: Discuss respectfully, or be suspended from my site. End of conversation. G'bye.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T14:54:23-06:00

ID

105658

Comment

Here's my point. I don't get on here and chime in on Melton and Peterson. Why? Because it's none of my business. Just like the name of a landmark in Rankin-Madison (and a couple of other counties) is not the business of anyone who doesn't live here. As I do not live in Jackson, you probably would not appreciate it if I gave my opinions on the mayor and the DA. Now, me personally, I don't like what Ross Barnett stood for. I just don't care what the Fondren crowd thinks of anything we do over here. I would venture that most folks who live here do so because we want to disassociate from Jackson. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T18:27:38-06:00

ID

105659

Comment

Curt-speak for yourself. I don't chime in on Frank a lot for the same reason you stated above. I live in Hawkins territory. But, I'm going to ask that you don't speak for Madison residents. Mainly because that includes me and I don't agree with you. I don't want to dissociate from Jackson at all. 'Tis the reason we are here, my love.

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-04-10T18:34:58-06:00

ID

105660

Comment

Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. No, we won't leave our bedroom communities alone, and we don't suppose, or desire, that they leave us alone, either. Curt, you're sounding awful silly, dude. Try a new tactic.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T18:39:18-06:00

ID

105661

Comment

Ali, are you saying there's a far left radical in Madison County? I'm calling Toby Towbridge.

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T18:41:09-06:00

ID

105662

Comment

Are you truly saying, Curt, that one has to be a "far-left radical" to not want public institutions (and lakes) named after white supremacists? If so, wow.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T18:45:31-06:00

ID

105663

Comment

Donna, that was a joke toward Ali.

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T18:55:25-06:00

ID

105664

Comment

Only in MS would my beliefs be called "Far left radical". Seriously. You guys should read some of the columns that come out of San Francisco...your head would explode. Ali, are you saying there's a far left radical in Madison County? I'm calling Toby Towbridge Yes, I am. But, I won't give out my address because they might come get me. The only thing I have going for me is that I'm cute and white. This practically assures the Madison police won't pull me over and beat me senseless for being a "Far left radical".

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-04-10T18:57:06-06:00

ID

105665

Comment

Donna, that was a joke toward Ali. Jokes need to make sense, Curt. And we can see what a lighthearted fella you are.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-04-10T19:31:27-06:00

ID

105666

Comment

Ali, I'm shocked they haven't pulled you over just to get your number.

Author

Curt Crowley

Date

2006-04-10T19:35:25-06:00

ID

105667

Comment

Curt, I appreciate the spirit in which your observations is offered, i.e., Jackson citizens don't really have much business opining about private Madison/Rankin matters, and the other way around about Madison/Rankin people talking about Jackson. However, I don't think the Reservoir can be fairly classified as solely a Madison/Rankin concern that doesn't concern everyone else in the state. The reservoir a state lake. A state agency oversees it. True, it happens to be in Madison/Rankin, but it's still a state lake. Therefore, citizens of the state should be able to chime in all they want. This is not just a leave us alone kind of matter, such as who you choose for mayor, etc.

Author

MAllen

Date

2006-04-11T08:12:40-06:00

ID

105668

Comment

Curt: One corner of Jackson butts into the spillway, about in the middle if I recall right. It's not a huge corner, but it's there. Madison and Rankin split most of it. It's been awhile since I got to play with Maps, however. I'm for naming it after William Winter, though I think Brett Farve would get more votes faster. :)

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-04-11T14:14:25-06:00