Ellington

Clinton is getting flack for not being more gracious at her speech. Has anyone ever wanting something really bad and worked non-stop only to not get what they had hoped and dreamed of for so long? I think its going to take Hillary a little bit of time to decompress, slow down, and switch directions. Besides, wouldn't everyone be calling her bluff and second guessing her immediate and dramatic switch last night if she hung it up and put on an Obama t-shirt?

Previous Comments

ID

130471

Comment

Time for what John? That heifer or bobble-headed trick knew she would win or lose. She has lost and should do what all losers must do - thank the people, count her blessings, pass on her support and go away. If I were Obama, I'd say look you stupid _____ , isn't it time you start acting like you got some sense. Will you take the Enviromental Protection Aganecy to join the team. And can you get that sleazy and crazy sombitch Bill to shut up or work for us?

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-04T10:19:30-06:00

ID

130472

Comment

go to my last post, walt. and, again, everyone needs to chill out and breath. its won for obama.

Author

John Sawyer

Date

2008-06-04T10:28:23-06:00

ID

130473

Comment

No one would be calling her bluff or second guessing her after she lost. Losing and winning aren't the same thing. They are quite different and you do different things depending on what position you end up. She's acting like she has lost and won. I wouldn't allow the Clintons to demand anything from me. Obama was quite gracious, respectful and loving toward her in his sppech last night. I kept wondering if he was talking about the same ______ I saw running against him all those months. It didn't sound much like her to me. "It's time to make a change. We are the people who can do it." And "there is no more love in this house (my house)for the Clintons."

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-04T10:41:36-06:00

ID

130474

Comment

Just as Clinton supporters were admonished on Saturday that they "dishonor their candidate" when they were being discourteous to the DNC rules committee, the same advice applies to Obama supporters. Obama supporters should follow his lead last night when he praised her historic efforts for health care and children and also praised Bill Clinton's presidency for its fiscal responsibility. That is the attitude that will help heal wounds.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-04T10:48:50-06:00

ID

130475

Comment

If you compare Reagan and both Bushs to Clinton's record you would think Clinton was the republican and Reagan and the Bushs the Democrats if you beleived the hype of republicans concerning their beliefs in fiscal responsibility, small government, balanced budget, et al. What are the Democrats waiting on to point this out even to republican voters. I agree Whitley I would be nice to Hillary and Bill too if they allowed me to do so. I know Obama did the right thing last night although I would have said, "What up with these crazy muaf_____ Clintons, anybody knows?"

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-04T11:42:31-06:00

ID

130476

Comment

Walt, you can compete with Cheryl Underwood!

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-04T11:51:28-06:00

ID

130480

Comment

Clinton is showing signs she will be a team player. Earlier today she defended Barry against McCain's attack at the AIPAC meeting. She might campaign hard for a spot on the Supreme Court and good positions (like VP and a cabinet post) for a couple of key supporters.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-04T12:19:00-06:00

ID

130481

Comment

I'm depressed because I won't get to see a firefight at the Democratic Convention. It didn't hurt Kennedy when he did it, after all.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-06-04T12:21:49-06:00

ID

130484

Comment

If you really want to see a fight with no limits or bounds of indecency just watch what the repugnant republicans say and do in Minnesota and elsewhere in the months to come. I already got my gas mask as I expect desperate and repugnant shit to be slung every which a way. It won't be enough though!

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-04T12:48:24-06:00

ID

130497

Comment

I've been saying it for a while: the kinds of attacks that will be hurled against Obama will be like none that we've ever seen and heard.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-06-04T15:46:53-06:00

ID

130499

Comment

Bill Moyer, one of the fairest journalists around, stated that in his lifetime, he had never seen anything like the attacks on Obama. We know it will continue. Ironghost must be of the same mindset of the wingnuts who are in the 20% of people who believe we are winning the war.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-04T15:50:58-06:00

ID

130506

Comment

Those who attack Obama with the most vitriol will only receive condemnation and contempt from the moral majority of America. Obama will also get the added benefit of being given the opportunity to rise above it and look even more Presidential. As for Hillary~ (and as a dedicated Obama supporter) i agree with John. Last night when i watched her walk out to Ain't No Mountain High Enough and shake young womens and mens hands on the way to the podium, i was actually able to take a breath and connect with her and her supporters. Hillary led a historic campaign. Hillary has been making judgements not just on what is going on in the present moment of the primary contest, but based on how her campaign will be viewed by history. Clinton gave what i considered to be a very conciliatory speech. It was obvious that she saw it as the last major speech of her campaign. She thanked her supporters. Noted the tremendous number of votes she received. She covered her own story as well as noting the issues which motivate her. The speech allowed her to put a neat bow on a very difficult race for her. i realized last night that i can move on with considerably less animosity for Hillary if she can come out purposefully and gracefully in support of Barack Obama during the next two weeks. She is already showing signs of this as in her speech today before the AIPAC. i think Barack was smart to volley a spot central to Health Care for Hillary in his speech last night. i can see her in a prominent role over health care in his administration. i think putting her over that at a time when she can really accomplish her goals will go further than just about anything with her real Democratic supporters.

Author

daniel johnson

Date

2008-06-04T19:28:25-06:00

ID

130507

Comment

Hillary has decided to drop out and endorse Obama on Saturday, according to the New York Times.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-06-04T19:55:07-06:00

ID

130508

Comment

I agree Dan, I liked her AIPAC speech. Healthcare czar would seem to be right down her alley. I sympathize with Hillary having to deal with Bill. He did more to sabotage her than the media conspiracy alleged by some of the wingnuts. He alienated the black vote and often made bizarre statements that distracted from her. She could do a great job on healthcare, but she would need to do it based on the future President's guidelines for openness as he has stated in the debates. I believe she probably has learned the lessons of the defeat in the 90's.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-04T21:41:52-06:00

ID

130511

Comment

I hope Obama rejects the whole Hillary as VP stuff. I don't trust her and I predict that she (and Bill) would overshadow Obama and undermine his authority. He needs to be his own man and pick who HE feels comfortable having as his running-mate, regardless of party pressure or conventional wisdom about the swing states. I would rather see Obama lose without Hillary than win with her.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-06-05T05:54:16-06:00

ID

130513

Comment

I'm with you, Jeff, on Obama not picking Hillary as vp so both Clintons can be out of his way. Let them bad mouth him from outside, not within. Didn't both Clintons show they were republicans anyway and have led a fraudulent existence for several years. I had high regards for the Clintons before this race, but they showed me they can't be trusted. Similarly, I formerly had high interest in Hillary becoming the first woman president. She had many opportunities to take the high road and prove all her haters wrong about her. Instead, she choose to act selfishly, emotionally and arguably prejudice if not racial or racist, i.e. -the low road. I'm equally disappointed in her advisors and supporters for not insisting that she takes and keeps to the high road as she was trying to overcome the glass ceiling. Barack is doing so although I'm not sure I could in face of obvious racism. Actually, I know I could but would always be tempted to just curse out a no good joker.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T07:39:58-06:00

ID

130514

Comment

I just read in the Chicago Sun Times that white women, especially older ones, are mad at Obama. I wonder why? Is it because they, like their male counterpart, believe they're entitled first to the fruits of Democracy and Black folks last or never. I know there is gender discrimiation and racism is America and throughout the world. The white woman, by and large, has amazingly benefited from the racism and largesse of the white man and usually without ever confronting him about his racism toward blacks and others. This fact has lots of people placing the white woman in the same category as the white man with little or no disctinction despite sexism. I'm generalizing here but you get the point. If the white women is mad at Barack and thinks she deserves an apology from him for the campaign he ran then maybe she needs to get over the disease she's also suffering from. In my opinion, Barack doesn't owe white women anything for his campaign except to acknowledge and treat them equally like everyone else. However, if he can do anything about gender discrimination in the meantime I'm all for it. Any thoughts from others?

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T08:11:03-06:00

ID

130516

Comment

What is Barack alleged to have done to HER?

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-05T08:32:16-06:00

ID

130517

Comment

I have no idea. I guess he was supposed to get out of her way and let her win because she was a white women trying to make history.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T08:37:21-06:00

ID

130519

Comment

I re-read the article and now realize Obama was supposed to apologize for the way Hillary was treated by the media, other white women who couldn't stand her, white males you couldn't stand her, black folks who grew to not like her, et al. I beleive he was supposed to apologize also for undercutting her historic effort. Whitley, don't you know Miss. Anne is the greatest thing on earth. After all, master often protected and held her countenance above his own defilement as he raped slave after slave girl and abused and killed male slave after male slave. Fast foward through Jim Crow and Miss. Anne is nearly viewed the same. Fast forward to now and I guess she's entitled to whatever she wants still, according to some.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T08:47:30-06:00

ID

130520

Comment

Jeff..with stakes THIS high. Sometimes doing what is most comfortable to you will land you right back in a place that is even more comfortable...YOUR COUCH! At home...watching the ree-pee-yubes steal another election. Im not interested in Barack losing on either set of terms. Id rather see him WIN WITH HER..than to lose tryin to prove a point. Obama has to win this. This is crucial folks!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-06-05T08:55:18-06:00

ID

130521

Comment

This is assuming that Clinton would be a huge help in the general, but let's look at this. New York is not in play and she's not likely to swing Arkansas 16 years after leaving there, so she brings no geographic advantages; her foreign policy credentials consist of being a former First Lady and second-term senator; she brings very high unfavorables and lots of potential scandal material. She might help Obama and she might not. She should be on the shortlist, but she shouldn't be the shortlist because she has given no indication that she can deliver.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-06-05T09:04:35-06:00

ID

130522

Comment

I'm not convinced that Obama cannot win without her, Kaze. You and I agree that Obama has a tough, if not near-insurmountable, road ahead of him in attracting white voters who've been turned off by his controversial personal associations, but adding someone whose negatives are just as high or higher than his isn't going to be helpful either. I don't let the "protest votes" in WV, KY, and SD sway me; these people wouldn't come out for Hillary Clinton either if she were the nominee because these folks are conservative and tend to vote Republican or blue-dog Democrat by and large.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-06-05T09:33:19-06:00

ID

130523

Comment

Glad all you men (esp Walt) have decided that us women need to "get over" our experiences of sexism. And that Hillary's run for the presidency is somehow "less" historic than Obama's, and the she was supposed to "get out of the way". Walt can't even blog about her without implying the use of the word b*tch, with his clever little blanks in his early posts. Nice article at Salon. to quote: Hillary Clinton, the Goldwater girl turned '60s liberal turned ultimate insider, the former first lady and current senator, has become the belated, almost reluctant leader of a movement, mainly of women but also of white working-class voters, Latinos, seniors and others who feel left out. They don't just feel left out by George Bush's America, but also by the Obama coalition. The women in that movement are especially volatile and angry, over the sexism Clinton has faced all along the way, right up to her final election night. And women are the largest Democratic constituency. Winning without overwhelming support from white Democratic women wouldn't be easy for Obama. I have no doubt Obama and his supporters can reach these women, but first he has to try. I'll start with a few simple pointers for how to do it: Don't call them racist. Or old and irrelevant. And don't say Hillary Clinton has to do all the work to heal the breach; Obama has plenty he can do himself. and there's this: Still, the sexist disrespect faced by Clinton, and her female supporters, has been deplorable. But maybe worse has been the willful denial by much of the media and many Obama supporters that it even exists, or if it does, that it matters. and But it's also a reminder that one of the most troubling and unexpected results of this thrilling, historic campaign is the Racism vs. Sexism Death Match, the futile, angry attempts to decide which one is worse, more pervasive, more evil; which accounts for one candidate's success and the other's struggles. Both are terrible, both are still pervasive -- and both are far less pernicious than they were even a generation ago. I've covered this race with a surreal sense of awe and occasionally sadness over the bitterness, because I started my career covering the candidacies of Geraldine Ferraro and Jesse Jackson for In These Times in 1984, when the political battle against racism and sexism seemed entwined, when mobilizing African-Americans and women seemed the ticket to party victory.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T09:34:37-06:00

ID

130525

Comment

Kate, you know too well I never said women should get over their experiences about sexism above or ever. So don't even try to pull that sorry crap on me. Nor have I said Hillary's historic run was any less significant that Obama's. That was an equally misplaced and sorry comment. If you're going to address me try coming with the truth. Yes, I have badmouthed her for the way she acted in recent months and days, and I used to be a big supporter of her. The only comment made by you that reflects honestly on me is the one implying she acted nasty or the other word you claim I implied. My recent dislike of Hillary has nothing to do with her being a woman and you know it if you've read what I wrote. I guess the anger the article talked about is true since you're attacking without any basis. Barack can handle his unjustified detractors and I can certainly handle you. What else you got? By the way, I've missed you. Have you missed me?

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T09:57:26-06:00

ID

130526

Comment

Kate, what are the sexist statements or actions of Obama? Who in his camp called Hillary's supporters "racist, old and irrelevant"? I am open to being pointed to examples. Barack cannot be held responsible for the media or the public just as he has not blamed any of his troubles on racism, but rather has seemed to say that he will do better.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-05T10:05:39-06:00

ID

130528

Comment

er, Walt, where did I attack Obama? I attacked you for your inability to criticize Clinton without calling her a b*tch, but not Obama. I'm rather fond of him as a candidate. to quote you on Clinton: I'd say look you stupid _____ ,... kept wondering if he was talking about the same ______ I saw running against him all those months... maybe she needs to get over the disease she's also suffering from and this one: After all, master often protected and held her countenance above his own defilement as he raped slave after slave girl and abused and killed male slave after male slave. Fast foward through Jim Crow and Miss. Anne is nearly viewed the same. Fast forward to now and I guess she's entitled to whatever she wants still, according to some. Um, women have been owned and abused by men of all races all over the world since the beginning of time. as the article I linked to suggests, let's NOT make this about which is worse, racism or sexism. and my favorite: I guess he was supposed to get out of her way and let her win because she was a white women trying to make history. This is exactly what folks have been telling Clinton to do. As the title of the forum suggests, all I'm looking for is an end to the bashing. Complain about Clinton all you want, but without calling her a bitch, without dismissing her defenders as "angry white women" and without belittling the sexism that is just as virulent in society as the racism.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T10:15:29-06:00

ID

130529

Comment

Whitley, I never said that Obama was sexist in action or statement (despite his referring to a reporter as 'sweetie'). Nor did I ever intentionally imply it. Nor does the article that I linked to on Salon. I do think that Obama and his supporters need to start to reach out to the core base of Clinton supporters. Older women, latinos, blue collar workers - he's gonna need them come November. personally, as a 43 year old white woman, I feel that the Obama campaign has not focused on me at all. now that we're he's got the nomination, I expect and hope that will change. I'll vote for him whether or not that changes, but not everyone in my demographic will. and if we can't even have a forum on "Lay Off Hilary" without the first post being "look you stupid bitch", I'd say we are in trouble come November.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T10:20:59-06:00

ID

130530

Comment

I referred to an article in the Chicago Sun Times. I'll stick to what I wrote otherwise except the implication or idea that I called Hillary the b-word. I didn't call her that but left a blank for those who wanted to insert it. I had no intentions of implying either racism or sexism is worse and I didn't either even if you prefer to think I did. I set forth what I beleive are truisms with respect to the pedestal some people have been put on and the marginalization others have suffered repeatedly with little or no interruption. I'm historically and factually correct whether you like it or not. You can't disprove it either. I will certainly agree that women have been abused by all kinds of men throughout the annuals of time, although I have never participated personally unless you count these posts. I never said you badmouthed Obama either. From watching the news and reading accounts of the campaign, I am interested to know whether women, especially white women, really think Obama owes them an apology. If so, why doesn't the black women think the same. Racism and sexism are both wrong and should be stopped. Racism stopped the black man, woman and child for centuries of participating in the fruits of the American Dream. Sexism hampered the white woman as well but it didn't completedly leave her out of benefits of such dream even if based in someone else besides her. Both are similar but you will never get me to say they're exactly the same. After all, I'm not dumb or shallow, even if my writing indicates otherwise.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T10:36:44-06:00

ID

130531

Comment

I apologize for leaving a blank in my post where the word could be inserted. I was wrong without a doubt. I used to like Hillary very much and have fought more battles on here for her than anyone I know of. I was trying to be funny and am surprised I got away with the implication for so long. I tried to walk the line of humor and decency. Free at last. Thank God Almighty I'm Free at Last. The truth has set you free! I won't ever do it again.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T10:59:00-06:00

ID

130532

Comment

okay, Walt, I'll assume that when you were talking about Obama 'detractors' in your first response to my post that you weren't referring to me. I don't think Obama owes anyone an apology, nor do I think Clinton owes anyone either (at least not for her overall campaign). I found your first couple of posts on this thread pretty ugly. You didn't technically call her the b-word, but you certainly implied it. I am so sick and tired of sexist attacks on Clinton. There's so much more to attack her on - no one needs to stoop to her gender for attacks. I truly feel that Hillary ran an important campaign, and I agree with her crazy decision to fight to the end. I think it was important to register all those votes and all of that record turn out, and let people stand up and say that they felt that Clinton represented them more closely than Obama. It should help to shape the way Obama campaigns and even governs. There's an important demographic divide between Obama and Clinton supporters. It is now up to the Obama campaign (and his supporters) to bridge that gap. As stated above, he will have a very hard time winning without older women, latinos and blue collar workers. He and is campaign need to reach out to them. And his supporters need to chill out and, in the words of a wise man, "Lay Off Hillary."

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T10:59:50-06:00

ID

130533

Comment

Apology noted and accepted, at least for me. because, I don't speak for all white women over 40 who voted for Clinton in the primary. Go Obama!

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T11:02:45-06:00

ID

130544

Comment

I agree with Kate: There is no reason to attack Hillary's womanhood. Do her, and all women, the honor of not stooping to that. I see it as major progress that I had the option of voting for a female president and could choose not to -- not based on her gender, but based on the fact that I didn't think she would be the best president. That is true equality -- when we come compete, win and lose on our own merits.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-06-05T13:36:39-06:00

ID

130545

Comment

My concern about Obama bridging that gap, Kate, is that at least a good chunk of it seems race-based. Look at the results of the exit polls. How can Obama bridge that?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-06-05T13:37:48-06:00

ID

130549

Comment

He can go for the chunk that's not race based, for starters. And, I'm curious how much of the racial bias is going to stick in the fall. I mean, it could have been *a* factor in voting decisions for many people, rather than *the* factor. America may surprise us. Faced with another republican administration, I'm hopeful that many people will decide that Obama's race really isn't that important, after all. A girl can dream, right?

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T14:08:59-06:00

ID

130551

Comment

I remain oblivious about what anyone can do about a racist refusing to vote for or support you because he hates your race. DuBois eventually gave up, became a communist and left the country, Robeson refused to accept racism and was crucified endlessly by many despite his enormous and rare talents, Fredrick Douglas nearly gave up and left except for the Civil War, Dr. King was running out of patience with racism. Racism appears to be permanent in the eyes of many and I bet different races of people would have a different opinion as to this claim. Frankly,I say a black man shouldn't try to change the mind of a racist since he can't do it anyway to any significant degree. Let the racist be what he or she is, expose him or her when necessary and do to them what you know they would do to you if placed in a situation where you have to act. Otherwise, ignore them if you can and hope God erases them from your path. Since Barack is bi-racial and has lived intimately with whites, perhaps he's better able to understand racism in general and racist white people in particilar . I will accept whatever he does to try and fill the gap but I don't think it can be done. I think he should concentrate on those who aren't racist and see if he gets enough votes to win. I don't want to see Barack emasculating or embarassing himself publicly trying to reach that or those who only the good lawd can reach. The sad thing is that there can't be another conversation about race on his part. Anything he says will be used against him by his enemies, no matter how truthful or resolute it is. We as a people can't talk about race well(excepting a few of us here). I tried numerous times to have an honest discussion with white people about race to no avail. It never mattered how well I knew or how much I cared for the people I tried to engage. They routinely clammed up without telling me why. I think I know why, but if I said so publicly white people would come from everywhere denouncing what I said. If you don't believe me consider Wright,Pfleger, Farakan. This even occurrs across other racial lines. Barack should just do his best while reaching out to everyone equally. If it's the Lord's plan for him to win, he will. I don't put anything past some humans. History is a testament to this.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T14:14:53-06:00

ID

130554

Comment

What is the divide separating Obama from Clinton supporters? Obama's entire campaign has been about looking beyond the labels we take on and are put upon us to see that we are all Americans working for the same goal. Obama never said or did anything to alienate her supporters other than challenging her in a Democratic primary. Please enlighten me as to what Clinton supporters are looking for from Obama?

Author

daniel johnson

Date

2008-06-05T15:40:18-06:00

ID

130555

Comment

Earlier they wanted him to get his black butt out of the way. In other words, they wanted him to roll over, mess up, play dead, be submissive and inferior to Hillary, or realize it's not the boy's time yet. The women is supposed to be first. Chivalry isn't dead, just injured. Hillary's supporters now want Obama to pick Hillary as vp and if he doesn't do it they're staying at home or voting for McCain. Again I say those kinds of supporters suffer from that disease and pathology of racism and sexism disguised as something different. That's why I said earlier I would likely tell Hillary to go to hell and take 18 million voters with her.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T15:49:09-06:00

ID

130556

Comment

I think the divide is mostly race and sex. I have done some personal business with a white family for years and as I was sitting in the lobby a few months ago I heard my representative say there is no way in hell she was voting for Abama or calling him president Obama. I thougt it strange to say such a thang based on just name along or some other unstated reason. What she doesn't know yet is she will not be doing any more business with anyone named walt or whatever my name is, either.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-05T16:14:36-06:00

ID

130557

Comment

Walt, this type of attitude: "tell Hillary to go to hell and take 18 million voters with her" just isn't going to solve a damned thing. Also, quit complaining that "they" wanted him out of the way. "They" have been wanting Clinton to "get out of his way", "roll over", "be submissive", etc. It's a competition. Someone has to win, someone has to lose. Obama didn't give up. Yay for him. Clinton refused to give up too. Yay for her. Tenacity is important in politics. Both candidates displayed it. Yay for both of them. I personally don't have to denigrate one in order to support the other. Daniel, Obama has *not* appealed to everyone. He has missed the boat on older people in general, and I don't believe that it is entirely because of racism. I do think that Obama supporters need to be very careful in this notion that "Clinton Supporters = embittered racists". There are hints of that already on this board. Walt, from what you wrote you only heard someone say she wouldn't vote for Obama. Unless I'm missing something, she didn't say that it was race-based, did she? There are plenty of reasons (not that I agree with most of them...) to vote for McCain instead of Obama. Also, this is the man who said that much of middle america was "clinging to guns and religion" or whatever. That is not a statement designed to "look beyond labels." I like Obama alot, and I'll vote for him. I don't understand the Clinton supporters who say they won't vote for him, but whatever. I do think that Obama needs to do a much better job of outlining policy proposals. I think he needs to not call reporters sweetie. I think he needs to be very careful to not sound condescending (yes, I know, this is veritable heresy, but to my ear, he often sounds patronizing). Imagine if John Kerry had said the "clinging to guns" thing. He'd *still* be living that one down. I don't think that Obama can just write off Clinton supporters, racist or no. This is an historic campaign, he is a gifted orator with a fabulous speech writer. I'm prepared for some good stuff to come from this. If anyone can bridge the gap, I do think that it's Obama. On a last note, I've had more peopel tell me they would NOT vote for Hillary because she's a woman, than I've had people tell me they won't vote for Obama because he's black.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-05T16:31:39-06:00

ID

130558

Comment

Kate wrote: "I do think that Obama and his supporters need to start to reach out to the core base of Clinton supporters." Your're right Kate, but his base is going to remain with those under 45 though --- those of all races who have had a less segregated life and are more open to differences. He cannot realistically expect to beat McCain among the over 60 set, but he can chip into his advantage there. We all know that younger generations of blacks and whites are less biased, i.e. there is more racism among older folk. His biggest gap with Hillary was not so much gender or ethnicity, but age. For instance, with Hispanics, he also did much better among those under 45. He is beginning to reach out more to the older generations. When he campaigned in Florida recently, it seemed that he visited a lot of senior communities. Kate wrote: "Also, this is the man who said that much of middle america was "clinging to guns and religion..."" I understand your feelings about that statement. I cringed a little on that one even though I "cling" to my religion when times are tough. It just sounded bad. I had a epiphany though, when I was re-reading his book, The Audacity of Hope, and saw that he used the word "cling" in benign ways in different places. It seems that he just has a bad habit of using "cling" as a verb. This further convinced me that his intentions were not as awful as the way the phrase sounded. Clearly, he has the least "elitist" background of anyone who was in the field, having been raised by a single mother who sometimes used food stamps.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-05T17:13:16-06:00

ID

130559

Comment

Kate, it appears he IS making progress with women --- if the latest Rasmussen poll from Tuesday in Missouri is any omen. He trailed McCain among women in the poll take on 5-2 and trailed him overall by 6 points. He now leads by one point overall in Missouri and leads among women by 6 points. It seems that a gain among women in the last thirty days in Missouri is what has help him overtake McCain in the poll. Claire McCaskill has been going all out for him there also (but she narrowly won her last race). Missouri will be close as will other states. He will need to nurture his rapport with women who are usually the majority of Dem voters. It seems that Hillary is no longer clinging (joke) to her dissapointment and is impressively turning positive and emphasizing that she wants her supporters to help defeat the other party. That may resonate with many of her supporters.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-05T17:48:35-06:00

ID

130564

Comment

I'm glad this close primary is finally settled. A free-for-all (or something like that) would really have hurt the Dems in November, especially given the 50-50 state of the nation this decade. Having said that, I think there is a place in any to-be Obama Administration for Hillary. Just what, precisely, I don't know. Secretary of Health and Human Services would be a good one for her, on paper at least. It means that while I think she would be quite competent and perhaps even passionate as an HHS Secretary, I don't know if her ego would accept that as THE highest position she'd want over the long run - though her passion for health care just might be enough to overcome her pretensions (sorry, Hillary supporters, but I do find her to be that.) I would say she might be good as Secretary of State, but I think NM Governor Bill Richardson would be a much better fit for it - impressive foreign policy experience, plus he doesn't seem to have a huge ego (the latter is desperately needed given our perception in the world). In fact, I'd even go further and say I'd love to see an Obama-Richardson ticket (maybe I'm biased because before he dropped out, I favored Richardson for the nomination. Even so, I think Obama would miss a grand opportunity for the real change he talks of if he overlooked Richardson for some foreign policy position).

Author

Philip

Date

2008-06-06T01:23:10-06:00

ID

130565

Comment

If Obama picks a male VP, I think Richardson would be the best choice by far. He has the most foreign policy experience of just about everybody, he'll play well among working-class folks, he'll virtually guarantee New Mexico, and he could very well bring in Florida and Nevada, too. But I'd really rather see Obama pick a female VP if there's someone who would work in that role. McCaskill is a first-termer and problematic for that reason, but Missouri would be a great state for Obama to carry. Jennifer Granholm of Michigan would be perfect in most respects, but she's Canadian-born and therefore ineligible. Sebelius would be okay, but I don't see Kansas coming into play, regardless. I'm increasingly intrigued by the possibility of Blanche Lincoln. Napolitano used to be my pick, but her shift to the right on immigration is troubling and could seriously hurt Obama among Latinos. Hillary Clinton may well be the best choice for Obama, but the field needs to be looked at very carefully. Obama will close and reverse the gender gap to usual D-R proportions by November no matter who his VP pick is. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. But a female VP could pay off in terms of women's turnout, and would be historic for other reasons as well. Then again, Richardson would also be a historic first who would boost turnout.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-06-06T01:32:48-06:00

ID

130566

Comment

Jennifer Granholm of Michigan would be perfect in most respects, but she's Canadian-born and therefore ineligible. As well as unpopular. Good for Granholm that Michigan has term limits because she would have her head handed to her if she ran again in 2010. At the very beginning of the campaign, I was leaning toward Bill Richardson. I feel that he should have a place in an Obama or Clinton administration.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-06-06T07:55:22-06:00

ID

130567

Comment

Richardson should definitely be either VP or secretary of state, and I certainly won't complain if he gets the former gig, but I'm hoping Obama goes with a female candidate.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-06-06T08:47:23-06:00

ID

130568

Comment

Well, Kate and Whitley, believe it or not, I like to hear varying opinions that differ with mines. They give me cause to look for other things. I often look for those other things to see them not pan out. Obama has to try all kinds of thing to win just as I have to do in my job where I have to confront the same issues facing Obama. I'll be honest and tell you that I know Obama can't pass up those 18 million voters. No amount of anger or ill will would make me act that dumbly when it counted. Anyway, I'm told Obama and Hillary had a meeting last night and Hillary broke down crying about losing the election. In the process she asked Obama, "why couldn't I find and marry a man like you. She then said I married that sumbooker Bill Clinton who helped screw up my campaign for president and created a climate for those damn evil republicans to take over and ____ up the country." Like any smart black man knowledgeable of horrible history, Obama started backing away and saying to himself I'm not going out like this. I bet Bill, or Hannity, or Coulter or Limpbaugh is likely filming this. I'm not letting y'all set me up this way and have it said Obama the dog tried to put the move on Hillary at one of her worst moments. Shortly, Bill Clinton walked in and said baby what did this Bama do to you? (Sorry I meant Obama). Obama said I did nothing and I'm getting up out of here. This is what my sources told me, but I understand the press is likely to report something quite differently soon if not already. I don't trust my sources, but i have to report the news as I get it. I beleive Obama has to pick Hillary or risk substantial fallout from lots of voters and enemy sources. Unfortunately, many of those enemy forces are going to have a field day using Hillary for a scare tactic to voter on the fence or to shallow to see the truth. It's too bad Obama is likely to be forced to go against his will and better judgment. It is quite easy and normal for anyone to break down or act unusual when you have worked so hard for something as Hillary has. She has my deepest empathy, sympathy and respect. I'm almost not mad at her any more. Breaking down or being obstinate in such a situation as Hillary faced is not femalish. It's human. Often males act worse in the same situations.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T09:00:10-06:00

ID

130569

Comment

I could easily see the Demorats get behind an Obama/Richardson ticket, but that's no guarantee that the Hispanic/Latino vote is going to massively shift in Obama's direction. Obama has to figure out a way to connect with them without appearing to pander. I also think Joe Biden would be a better pick for SOS. His grasp of international affairs is pretty damn good, and he could probably hit the ground running in that role.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-06-06T09:04:33-06:00

ID

130570

Comment

They say that picking a woman other than Hill would upset her supporters even more, but maybe not if it was someone she suggests in the little meetings she and O are having at her DC crib. Did all the female governors support Obama? It seems that way. Maybe I overlooked someone.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T09:21:49-06:00

ID

130571

Comment

Whitley writes: "They say that picking a woman other than Hill would upset her supporters even more..." Unless I see poll data to this effect, I'm not buying it. Jeff writes: "I could easily see the Demorats get behind an Obama/Richardson ticket, but that's no guarantee that the Hispanic/Latino vote is going to massively shift in Obama's direction." Democrats tend to do well with the Hispanic/Latino vote, but Republicans also need a certain percentage of Latino support to win. George W. Bush's 44% in 2004 was a record high for a Republican of the modern era, and is unlikely to be repeated by McCain, but it's hard to imagine a scenario where he pulls less than 30% Latino support and still wins. If Richardson can be the difference between 35% and 25% Latino support for McCain, he can also be the difference between a McCain presidency and an Obama presidency. Obama will do fine among Latinos versus McCain. He doesn't really have a "Latino problem"; he just didn't have the level of community support that Hillary Clinton had, which has a lot to do with her longevity and the inroads that had been made by her husband (despite his regressive views on immigration and his so-so views on labor issues). Obama vs. McCain is a completely different animal from Obama vs. Clinton, as both Obama and Clinton had Latino-friendly platforms while McCain is a little harder to pin down.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-06-06T10:00:24-06:00

ID

130572

Comment

The Democrats got 60 percent of the Hispanic/Latino vote the last time around with the republicans getting forty percent based on something I recently heard or read. I don't understand why they or any other regular, poor or middle class people would vote republican, especially to vote for Bush twice. I had a long conversation with a Hispanic/Latino person in a downtown bar a week ago in Chicago. If I had closed my eyes I would have thought I was talking to a white person instead of a Mexican female, as she called herself. She tried to tell me of the connections between blacks and latinos/hispanics, but in discussing the slave trade she kept leaving out one important country -Spain. Since I fell of the turnip truck 2 weeks ago and not last week I kept asking her if she was leaving out a very important country - Spain. She eventually admitted it. She thought I didn't know. I then asked her why it appears Latino/Hispanic people are so adverse to blacks once they come to America. She went on to throw loads of bullcrap at me that didn't make any sense and weren't true. Just when I was about to unload on her with some undisputed truths someone hurriedly changed the subject. The reason is because all immigrants came to America, saw the setup and join in as survival of the fittiest and soon treated us nearly as badly as white folks were doing. They figured out there were rewards in following the status quo. I believe skin color and race have a lot to do with it too. Just my opinion.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T10:11:50-06:00

ID

130573

Comment

I read a very interesting interview in the LA Times of a Hispanic woman in her thirties. It was very revealing. The young lady intimated that she was a big Obama fan as were many of her younger Hispanic friends. She expressed dismay to the reporter that many older Hispanics (over 40) did not support Obama because they were biased against African Americans. There again, it seemed to indicate that Obamas problems with other ethnic groups are not based so much on a gender, ethnic or working class gap (across the board) but on a generation gap. That sounds so sixtyish! Will the elderly succeed in opposing the interests of their grandchildren? Will young people turn out?

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T10:24:00-06:00

ID

130574

Comment

From what you posed Whitley I conclude race is the problem, not a generation gap. I refuse to dress it up or to lessen the facts in order to make people feel less pained by their stupid decisions about race.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T10:29:19-06:00

ID

130575

Comment

Race is part of it, but we should not make the mistake of assuming that Hispanics and white people (across the board) have a problem with race when to be exact, it is moreso a problem with older Hispanics and older white people. Even with the fabled white working class, surveys show that O breaks even with those under thirty-five.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T10:37:12-06:00

ID

130576

Comment

It's no mistake. By my deduction, if older whites, hispancis or others cause Obama to lose because they hate blacks then Obama lost due to racism. By extrapolation I'm not also calling younger whites, hispanics or all whites or all hispanics or all anyone else racist if they are not. To merely call the problem a generational one is incorrect, in my view. And you will never convince me that there are no young people of these groups or races who don't hates blacks as much as their older counterparts. I see proof to the contrary constantly. Admittedly things are better than they used to be.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T10:45:44-06:00

ID

130578

Comment

is the data showing that older people are not voting for Obama because of his race? Or simply that they are not voting for him? I could argue that older people are not voting for Obama because he's pretty young (some days he looks like he's about 14) and very very new to the national political stage. It could be old folks are just more comfortable with someone older. Let's not assume that not voting for Obama is an immediate indicator of racism. But, if someone's parsed the data to show a link b/n age and race, then I'd like to see it. If young people really are less racist than their elders, at least that bodes well. As long as they maintain their openness into their senior years.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-06T10:59:46-06:00

ID

130579

Comment

I think I will call the racism you're calling a genration gap - Old Time Racism Held, Cherished and Bottled Up In The Hearts, Minds And Souls, and Passed Down like Heirloom, Real and Personal Property and Life Sustenance. With this said, I applaud young folks. Surely and clearly many have opted to not be like their old relatives and to instead judge people on their own merits regardless of race. I'm as glad about that as anyone.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T11:01:06-06:00

ID

130580

Comment

And when someone/anyone provides Kate with that data provide me some also that says old white folks and hispanics have no history or deeds of racism toward blacks. Let throw in history with all of it's glory, truth and guidance. Likewise, I'd like to see proof of when old white folks and hispanics stopped hating blacks if that occurred. I clearly realize that all old white folks and hispanics don't hate blacks, so let me say already that we're talking in generalities.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T11:09:22-06:00

ID

130581

Comment

Otherwise I agree with Kate.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T11:12:25-06:00

ID

130582

Comment

Kate, I agree that the combination of O's color AND the fact that he looks younger than 46 is a lot for them to digest. It is difficult to do a survey that will get directly at whether people vote based on ethnicity or not.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T11:17:18-06:00

ID

130583

Comment

Whitley, I don't think the survey would be all that difficult. Personally, I'd design it so that people could rank the reasons why they wouldn't vote for Obama - his lack of experience (youth) lack of detail on his policy ideas his race disagreement with key policy issues. etc. Like I said up stream, I'm curious as to whether race is simply one of several factors for some people which they will get over in November, or if it really is The Defining Issue for people, and that they will stay home or vote for McCain.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-06T11:38:00-06:00

ID

130584

Comment

Kate's survey would be so revealing considering how honest people are these days when it comes to matters of race and racism. If people can't talk openly and honestly about race on a one to one basis, or even anonymously on blogs, surely they would tell their true feelings when asked in writing privately knowing that the answers are likely to be made public at some point. He, he. Even the old and bold South finally got smart enough to not list or state their sole or honest reasons for doing many of the things they do. There are Klansmen who would say they're not racist and do not act based on race when asked in a forum not of their choosing or liking. Yes, I know I'm a pessimist obsessed and blinded by race, and that is the reason I have questions about these so-called good ideas. I pray that I get some sense some day, else I might continue to have this unusual frame of reference or mindset, in view of all these good ideas that are so easy to pick apart.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T11:54:20-06:00

ID

130585

Comment

Walt, the old surveyors trick is to ask for both your opinion AND what you think your neighbor would do. When people are ashamed of their own opinions, they ascribe them to their neighbors. It's one way to circle into the truth. But, at least people have the sense to be ashamed of racist values. We gotta start somewhere.

Author

kate

Date

2008-06-06T11:58:14-06:00

ID

130586

Comment

Thanks kate. I expected a cuss out instead.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T12:02:34-06:00

ID

130587

Comment

"I clearly realize that all old white folks and hispanics don't hate blacks," -walt They might not necessarily espouse hate, but they accrue all the benefits of a society structured upon that hate.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-06-06T12:15:23-06:00

ID

130588

Comment

This is a good article about the Hispanic vote: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-latinos6-2008jun06,0,6922884.story?track=ntothtml There will always be some racism to varying degrees among all groups. We must cherish every bit of progress. We need less focus on our bitterness and differences and more on love and our common interests. As Dr. King said, "We need a spiritual revolution".

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T12:20:21-06:00

ID

130589

Comment

Sho you right Will, and as a result they support that system silently and often obviously, boldly and openly. My problem with focusing less on bitterness and differences, which is a good idea in theory, is that the majority wants to forget history altogether else be seen as they were and as many or most still are. We have tried that many times in the past to find ourselves going backward or never making any progress. This is what happens when your blindly trust your former and/or current oppressors. The oppressor knew exactly what he was doing in the first place, and arguably longs to see that day again, but he won't if I and many like me can help it.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T12:27:50-06:00

ID

130590

Comment

I feel you Walt. I just believe that what Marcus Garvey said 80 years ago is still true. Too many of us can get so caught up with the idea that some people don't like us (or hate us) and some people won't let us do things that it can become a crutch and an excuse for failure. We need to love who we are and fulfill our own destiny. That is why I detest the concept put forward that sexism or the mean media are the reasons Hill lost the election. Those are crutches to avoid self-analysis. Surely sexism AND racism were a factor, but with great effort and a great strategy, might we not be able to overcome (some day)?

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T12:33:17-06:00

ID

130591

Comment

I feel you too, Whitley. We have to be overcomer else we won't have a chance at success, freedom and peace. I have to overcome great odds every time I show up for trial. I'm supposed to lose everything yet I rarely do because I understand well the predicament I'm in, and what I must do to overcome. In the end, I'll tell the truth about it without dressing up the matter any to spare feelings. Lots of people don't like me because I believe in going to the core of the matter. If I'm going to Chicago from Jackson, I'm going up I-55 N, not over to New York or California then back around. I don't have time to waste on that. I waste my time on hobbies and things I enjoy, not other matters.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T12:43:51-06:00

ID

130592

Comment

This country was built (or seized) by those who were optimistic in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds (remember the Alamo?). African Americans would not be in the position we are in if our ancestors had not been optimistic in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. Martin Luther King, while being harassed by the FBI, still had the audacity to hope and dream that one day there might be a spiritual revolution in this country. The best soldiers are those who, when pinned down by superior fire power (actual not imagined) continue to feel that victory is possible and fight with hope to the end. It is hard to put forth your best effort if you wallow in pessimism.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T12:51:12-06:00

ID

130593

Comment

I agree wholeheartedly on some matter, Whitley. Hope springs eternal, no doubt, but pessimism has it's place and purpose, too. For instance I don't beleive I can personally fly without the help of some machine or device. My mind wouldn't be changed any after watching thousands without the assistance of the right machine and device jump off tall building wailing their hands and feet as they fall to their quick expiration.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T13:41:28-06:00

ID

130594

Comment

By the way, I expect Obama to win. Again, I expect him to walk through the maze he must in order to win. Yes there will be a valiant effort made to stop him by many and by any means necessary. I wouldn't even be surprised to see some white folks go off and proclaim I don't like n______. I'm keeping my gun and camera close by so I can film and report it. Coulter, Limpbaugh and Hannity might just explode and die before it all said and done. Barack isn't perfect and I don't expect perfection from. We never got anything near perfection from any of the white presidents or candidates for the same job, and I won't even mention what got from the last Bush.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T13:51:47-06:00

ID

130595

Comment

Walt, just because you're pessimistic doesn't meant it won't turn out bad. Optimism doesn't guarantee a good outcome either --- you just don't feel as bad as the pessimist along the way. You sound like a hope hater? Jesse Jackson told us to. "Keep hope alive". Clinton was "the man from Hope". Obama proclaims the "Audacity of Hope". Why so much hope? People like hope doggone it (lol).

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T14:24:39-06:00

ID

130596

Comment

I am somebody. I might be po', but I am somebody. I might be slo', but I am somebody. I might be black, but I am somebody. I might live in a shack, but I am somebody. Mr.Charlie might have his foot on my neck, but I'm gonna get up one day and bodyslam his ass because I am somebody. Keep hope alive. Whitley, if I didn't have hope I wouldn't get up in the morning and come to work. Love and hope have brought us this far despite so many odds. We're the hope and concsience of America. That's fo' sho'!

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T14:32:42-06:00

ID

130597

Comment

I had a really rough week and your humor picked me up Walt. Thanks.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-06T14:41:15-06:00

ID

130598

Comment

I might want and need mo', but I am somebody. I may drive a hoopty that shakes, rambles, drags and burn too much gas, but I am somebody. I may wear non-desinger clothes, but I am somebody. I may speak broken english or ebonic, but I am somebody. My haters may call me a thug, but I am somebody. Some people may call me a socialist, welfare queen or ho', but I am somebody. Some mean people may call me a traitor to my race for liking all good people regardless of race or color, but I am somebody. Because I am somebody and have embraced my color, plight and differences, I have made the world a better place, and bestowed hope to the hopeless, friendship to the friendless and love to those who have never known love. I am somebody. Let me stop because I'm starting to sound like a preacher - Revern Goodfoot, that is.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-06T15:34:00-06:00

ID

130603

Comment

Kate, i hope you can find my response to you way down here. First, i think it goes without saying that Barack generally garnered between 25 and 40% of the older vote throughout the primary. It does not surprise me that older Democratic voters would choose a white women with more perceived experience and certainly more years over her opponent. It would however suprise me for older Democrats to vote Republican when McCain's platform is so divergent from Obamas. i too think it is foolish to believe that all Hillary supporters are racists. It is far more likely that they preferred Clinton and enjoyed playing a part in politics by saying they'd vote for McCain if their candidate did not win. i don't think they'll be playing when the Presidency is at stake. As for the "bitter" remarks. Here Barack exhibited one of his "weaknesses" - he is not a politician who speaks in soundbites. He in fact is willing to talk as if the American people were intelligent enough to have a complex discussion. Here is the paragraph the remarks came from: But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. He admitted his wording was awkward and i agree. What is sad is that this flap-up didn't provide an opportunity to explore this very pertinent topic. It is very true that when people feel disaffected by their government, when they feel like they have no control, they will be easy to rally around particular issues which politicians are willing to dangle on a stick and provide them some modicum of return on their investment in the party. No doubt this is easiest when done connected to peoples dedication to ideas such as religion and guns. This does not demean religion and guns - it in fact recognizes its elevated status within AMericans lives. If you would like to read a great commentary on this speech from someone who has been on the campaign trail with him then check out the website below. At the bottom of the page it also offers a transcript of more of the speech surrounding the remarks. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

Author

daniel johnson

Date

2008-06-06T18:30:20-06:00

ID

130610

Comment

I want even waste my time telling y'all how disappointing Hillary's speech was to me with 80 percent of it being about her, her wishes, views and accomplishments. Surely, nothing happened in that speech that would benefit Obama. I absolutely wouldn't pick her after that performance as she's obviously stuck on self and the Clinton's legacy. Hopefully, the speech was a benefit to women and their struggles.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-07T11:28:48-06:00

ID

130611

Comment

After writing the above comment, I got an email from the Obama camp claiming Hillary's speech or throw of support has benefited Barack greatly, so I'll excuse my considered judgment in favor of the overall program for now. Thank you Hillary.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-07T11:51:13-06:00

ID

130612

Comment

Walt - your comments make me wonder if you saw Hillary's speech at all. i thought she made a very smart speech. She wrapped up her campaign, stressed her core issue (healthcare), and even made a point to emphasize gay rights briefly which didn't really get a chance to come to the fore in her campaign previously. She then spent about 12 minutes endorsing Barack Obama in direct, unequivocal terms. She was very forceful in making her case for her constituents to vote for Obama. She even neatly wove their support for him in November into the storyline she created for her campaign. If she continues the tone she started today, she will be quite an asset to Obama. Her facial expression could have been a little brighter while endorsing Barack, but i think we can all extend a little understanding given the circumstances. She will be a very strong force for the Democratic party this election and will likely serve in a great capacity to achieve universal healthcare coverage within an Obama administration.

Author

daniel johnson

Date

2008-06-07T14:03:27-06:00

ID

130614

Comment

I was moved by: "...for as long as America has existed, it has been the American way to reject "can't do" claims, and to choose instead to stretch the boundaries of the possible through hard work, determination, and a pioneering spirit. It is this belief, this OPTIMISM, that Senator Obama and I share, and that has inspired so many millions of our supporters to make their voices heard. So today, I am standing with Senator Obama to say: Yes we can." That is hope we can believe in Walt. Stop picking on that poor woman!!! Yes she CAN (have her moment in the sun (setting though it may be).

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-07T16:14:55-06:00

ID

130616

Comment

What we all need to focus on (instead of petty internal differences) are the treasonous right wing nuts who are letting our country slip into an inferior position to China as so well depicted in this series of six articles that can be found here: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/special-report-china-in-africa.html

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-07T22:19:18-06:00

ID

130617

Comment

I thought Hillary Clinton made a really good speech today. While she wasn't my first choice for the nomination, at the same time, I can feel the passion that she has for people and for a better America in her speeches. I didn't vote for her because I am suffering Clinton burn-out and she and her husband became vindictive and started doing a lot of whining after she found herself having to compete for the nomination when she thought she would have it wrapped up by Super Tuesday in February and thus didn't have a plan to go forward after that. But when you listen to Clinton's speeches, it's hard to disagree with the things she says. I'm not sure if Obama will pick her to be his running mate, but I think she should have a place in his administration.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-06-07T23:07:02-06:00

ID

130619

Comment

I thought it was a great speech, one of the best that she's given in this whole campaign season, and I think she clearly outlined the stakes in this election, that we cannot afford 4 years of another Republican administration, even a relatively decent one like McCain's would probably be. Keep in mind that Hillary has not surrendered her delegates to Obama, so she is probably holding out for some sweetheart deal to be included in the administration even if its not as VP. If Hillary can get out on the trail to help move the white women who supported her so feverently to Obama, it's all over. They are the critical demographic in this election.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-06-08T09:20:09-06:00

ID

130622

Comment

The still holding out part is what I have a problem with. If you're holding out and calculating still, can you say you have surrended your full and total support. Maybe so, maybe not. Daniel two people can hear the same thing yet get different impressions. It was an alright speech but I have heard better and I know it could have benefited Obama more if done differently and reflected a total and complete surrender. Mere words don't impress me if without real or complete meaning, value and consideration. I see and interact with great speakers and talents all the time. Hillary certainly is a great speaker and debater and I have never said otherwise. I won't say anything more on the matter and choose to listen to my friend Whitley and concentrate on commonalities rather than any differences of agreement at this point. I'm very happy to look and see beyond my first or last impressions because I'm open-minded, cerebral and clearminded. With this in mind, I look forward to putting someone in office who don't hate government and furthermore believes the government is for the people and of and by the people - all people - not just coroprations, certain people and the rich. Republicans accuse us Democrats of being socialists becasue we believe the government should benefit the common good of all people, not just government officials, certain people and the rich, like republicans have demonstrated they think. The average citizens would be shocked if they really knew how this administration of republicans have abused their authority to line thier personal pockets and their friends while lying to us and throwing us in a war to blind and harm us. What happened to all those principles the republicans and conservatives say they stand for: small government, state rights, fiscal responsibility, balanced budget, no war unless absolutely necessary, trade equity or surplus, budget surplus, family values, separation of church and state? The Bush administration has failed at achieving a single one of those things and instead gave us Abramoff, Delay, Gingrich, Bush, Cheney, Foley, Craig, Ritter, Harris, Lay, Renzi, Rove, Alberta, Haskert, Lott, Santorium and a whole lot of other pathetic individuals with a CONTRACT on America that they have come close to carrying out. We got to stop these no good bastards and it doesn't matter to me whether Hillary or Obama or John Doe leads it, but at this point, I hope it's Obama. I don't badmouth republicans because I'm mean. I do it because they're the biggest scourge and abomination this country has seen in the last 50 years. They're not mere politicans they're Lucifer's soldiers being led by Chucky, Dumbo and shooter aka killer. How the republicans bought and corrupted religion tells the whole story to me. Consequently, I don't have any problems calling the party what its actions clearly show me.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-08T10:32:36-06:00

ID

130624

Comment

People say there's too much cynicism in the country but I say there's not enough. We all need to be more cynical. Hillary's speech is a product developed by consultants, speech writers, marketing experts, psychologists, and designed intentionally to draw in the sheep and make fools out of us while the fat cats grab the gold. What did Hillary ever do for any woman I know, or am related to, married to, the father of...zero, nothing. People need to get more cynical, throw away the television, stop looking at Survivor, Faux News and soap operas, and take a look how politicians are gaming us. Don't let these people pull at your heart strings and make you all teary eyed when gas is $4, 40 million citizens without health care, good jobs off-shored to Pakistan, homeless in every city in America, cities in disrepair, schools underfunded, pointless foreign wars for oil company profits... Bill and Hillary made $109 million on book contracts and speaking engagements. Most Americans make $9/hour at walmart. The math don't work.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-06-08T12:56:16-06:00

ID

130625

Comment

I admit...hill pulled on my heartstrings... I do think she did help pave a way for the future for girls like my 15 year-old daughter. She can't get out all the way right now because of a technicality that would limit her ability to retire her 30 million dollar debt.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-06-08T15:23:35-06:00

ID

130875

Comment

Folks, one thing that I think is relevant to the "old people don't like Obama" and the "blue-collar people don't like Obama" and the "white women over 45 don't like Obama" stories: All of this is being guesstimated in the context of Obama vs. Clinton, not Obama vs. McCain. We know that a substantial number of Democrats flip red in national elections. What I think we saw in the Obama-Clinton race was a case where people who would ordinarily want to vote in the Republican primary already had a candidate by March, but had the option of participating in an exciting Democratic primary. They voted largely against the more popular Democratic candidate because they identified him more with policies they don't like (race may have also played a factor; age may have also played a factor; but I doubt most of these people voted for Gore or Kerry either), and that no doubt skewed the exit poll numbers. Is there any evidence that Obama is doing worse in these demographics than John Kerry or Al Gore did in their respective general elections? Because Clinton vs. Obama was a special case and doesn't tell us much about likely general election trends, IMHO.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-06-16T19:54:22-06:00