Ellington

Jackson hip-hop artist Kamikaze is organizing community feedback regarding a consulting group's recent recommendation to place the Mississippi Civil Rights Museum north of County Line Road in Ridgeland. Museum consulting firm LaPaglia & Associates recommended Tougaloo College as the site of the museum on Feb. 11, even though it received a No. 10 ranking on a site list (PDF, 177 KB) as recently as November when the top spot under consideration was the site of Smith Wills Stadium on Lakeland Drive.

The museum, endorsed by Gov. Haley Barbour and many lawmakers, will carry exhibits encompassing the state's 200-year civil right struggle. The National Civil Rights Commission (PDF, 258 KB), comprised of members appointed by Barbour, must first approve the company's recommendation, though the Commission's Location Committee has already voted to approve the recommendation, with only one abstention.

LaPaglia & Associates considered a number of factors in picking Tougaloo, such as parking availability, traffic and historical significance, among others, but Kamikaze said the state's capital city had more to offer in every category than the small private college.

"We respect and admire the contributions that Tougaloo made to the Civil Rights Movement, and it's not an issue of whether or not Tougaloo is worthy of having the museum, but in the grand scheme of things, a museum at Tougaloo only benefits Tougaloo," Kamikaze said. "The museum needs to be somewhere accessible, surrounded by locations connected to the Civil Rights Movement, and Jackson contains much of what went on in this vicinity regarding the movement."

Tougaloo President Beverly Wade Hogan, who is on the commission's Location Committee, did not return calls regarding the presentation package the college had assembled for LaPaglia & Associates.

Downtown Jackson Partners President Ben Allen said he had campaigned for a Jackson site since coming on as head of Downtown Jackson Partners.

"On Oct. 8, my first day on the job, we received notice that the Civil Rights Commission was going to select a site at Smith Wills Stadium, which was totally untenable. There was no way they were going to chop all those trees down from the nearby park and put in a museum," Allen said, adding that, at the time, the possibility of Tougaloo was not even on the map.

DJP spent nearly $30,000 arranging a proposal package selling the downtown area as a potential location for the museum. DJP's proposal revealed a total of 26 sites connected to the Civil Rights Movement, all within walking distance of three proposed museum locations, and an additional 37 restaurants, attractions and amenities all waiting to serve the museum's patrons.

Downtown Jackson Partners sold the city on other attributes, such as $750 million in project construction underway, and it partnered with the Central Mississippi Planning and Development Group to do a 10-year traffic count study estimating the rapid increase of traffic surrounding a potential Civil Rights Museum. (CMP predicts Pearl Street traffic to triple within the next decade).

Allen said he thought Jackson's proposal had been more than adequate.

"We thought we had done a good job, particularly when we saw that our sites were Nos. 4, 5 and 9 on the first list, and on the second list we were No. 2 and 3 and 4," Allen said.

Jackson initially contained seven potential sites in the top 10 list of possible destinations, but LaPaglia & Associates recommended Tougaloo, and then Hattiesburg's Vernon Dahmer Park as the second choice, with Jackson bringing up the next three options. Tougaloo had rated as No. 10 on the National Civil Rights Museum site evaluation list from November.

Kamikaze said he feared commission members who also served on Tougaloo's board may have a conflict of interest.

"To me, it appears that Tougaloo graduates or board members on the committee could be showing unseemly loyalty. Beverly Wade Hogan, and (college board Trusti Emeriti) Reuben Anderson, (College board member) Leroy Walker—having so many people on the committees turned into a slight conflict of interest, and we don't need to have that in Jackson at this point. It would be a public relations nightmare," said Kamikaze, who writes a column for the Jackson Free Press.

"It doesn't serve anybody to be selfish. We understand loyalty to your alma mater. I'm loyal to my alma mater, but you can't be so loyal to your alma mater that you overlook the greater good, and that's what's happening."

Former State Supreme Court Justice Reuben Anderson, who co-chairs the Civil Rights Museum Commission and also sits on the Tougaloo College Board, said there was some communication between commission members and LaPaglia & Associates.

"They talked to commission members. I don't know how many, but there was no prohibition," Anderson said Tuesday, adding: "I feel there was no conflict of interest."

Community input only accounted for about 4 percent of LaPaglia & Associates recommendation, though Kamikaze said the commission is about to hear considerable input from the community over the next few weeks.

"We're scheduling meetings this week and for the next few weeks on this issue. People are about to learn how committed this community is to placing the museum where it belongs," Kamikaze said.

Previous Comments

ID

98672

Comment

I support this 100%.

Author

Concerned in Jacktown

Date

2008-02-20T08:57:51-06:00

ID

98673

Comment

I support this, too! The new convention center will be filled with visitors downtown. They will love to walk to a museum such as this. Out of curiosity, what site was #1? Maybe I missed it...

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-20T09:16:35-06:00

ID

98674

Comment

Thanx..... that was so well said... "a museum at Tougaloo only benefits Tougaloo." I really believe that there was some manipulation going on behind the scenes with the commission and the consultant. Otherwise, how could the consultant be so far off the mark. We need these types of attractions to help market the convention center. NO ONE wants to attend a conference or meeting with a "dead" downtown. You need as many attractions as possible centrally located for visitors to tour and see. plzzz

Author

lanier77

Date

2008-02-20T10:36:17-06:00

ID

98675

Comment

Laurel, originally the No. 1 spot was Smith Wills; No. 2 was in Hattiesburg; the next several were spots in Jackson, including the Freelon's site on Mill Street (which sounds perfect). Then Tougaloo (spelled "Tugaloo" on the sheet) was No. 10. We'll put a PDF of that document up today.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-20T10:39:56-06:00

ID

98676

Comment

Also, one has to bear in mind that a lot of people who would travel here to see this museum (or who is here for a conference or such) are not going to be impressed with a museum up off the interstate in the suburbs. They will expect such a museum to be in the heart of an urban environment as they are in cities like Memphis and Birmingham. When you think about downtown Jackson being the bloody end of the Freedom Rides, for instance, it's really hard to imagine the museum anywhere else. Or all the marches and violence in the city after Medgar was assassinated. Or the hours of degradation at the Woolworth counter, as the multiracial protesters just sat and took the abuve. (Of course, they could put the museum on the state fairgrounds in the cattle pens where Jackson police locked up children in 100-degree heat with their hands tied above their heads for hours, but I have a feeling the fair folks won't go for it.) And should the plan be for Tougaloo to just sell them the land, then how does benefit Tougaloo beyond the immediate money from a real-estate transaction?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-20T10:44:37-06:00

ID

98677

Comment

To me, it seems crazy to put it anywhere other than downtown. Especially with all of the other downtown developments going on that are going to attract more and more tourists. Izzy, it said the top spot was where Smith-Wills is now.

Author

ellen

Date

2008-02-20T10:44:56-06:00

ID

98678

Comment

the next several were spots in Jackson, including the Freelon's site on Mill Street (which sounds perfect). To me, this site is a no-brainer! It's certainly where I have envisioned it going. Plenty of area to redevelop for such a purpose, and it creates a perfect link with Farish Street and the King Ed.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-20T11:14:25-06:00

ID

98679

Comment

Also doesn't the downtown site serve a dual purpose, to bring life and commerce into the blighted areas that are still remnants of that bloody era? A justice move... Good for Kamikaze for spearheading this - he is the kind of person that stands up and does something about what he believes in!

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-20T11:23:31-06:00

ID

98680

Comment

I totally agree. I frequently travel to and hosts events in downtown Birmingham and Memphis. Reasons for meeting there? I can bring people to an event and they can go to the Civil Rights Museums, stay in a decent hotel and visit other museums, have a variety of places to eat- all within walking or short driving distance. In 3 years, I fully expect downtown Jackson to be able to do the same. It has enough of those factors now that I when I do events in Jackson, I book hotels downtown. The exception: when I have events at Tougaloo- then I book around County Line. Why- My participants think Tougaloo is too far to drive. Hmmmmm- who's opinion did the firm "consult" to gather their report????

Author

urbangypsy

Date

2008-02-20T12:02:11-06:00

ID

98681

Comment

Tougaloo President Beverly Wade Hogan, who is on the commission's Location Committee, did not return calls regarding the presentation package the college had assembled for LaPaglia & Associates. The silence says it all doesn't it? Whatcha hiding from Beverly? Tugaloo You've got to be kidding me? And a question for Anderson, Did LaPaglia "communicate" with all the members of the site committee, or just a select few? Betcha won't answer; but I know the real answer, and it is "NO." And, I wonder how on the "up and up" the whole commission was with the sub-committees on the process for picking a site and why they picked it?

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-20T12:39:52-06:00

ID

98682

Comment

And what is really sad is that we have yet to hear any outcry or comments from any of our City leaders or from the Governor himself. I'm sure Haley is respecting the rights of the commission; but, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that downtown Jackson is the right choice. We have so much dead space, like the old Sun and Sand, that it is ridiculous to consider anywhere else. Last I checked, there is NO blight around the Sun and Sand - except the Sun and Sand itself! But, I don't care where it is as long as it is in downtown Jackson! Come on Haley step up and support the Capital City, its not like the legislators are going to give us our fair share of PILOT taxes anyway!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-20T12:44:21-06:00

ID

98683

Comment

For the sake of urban revitalization - the proposed museum should be placed in the Farish Street District! Especially since the district offers several authentic sites used during the Civil Rights Movement, such as Medgar Evers' office on Farish St, the segregated public library on Mill, several churches, and the Smith Robertson Cultural Center. A district location provides easy walking access to these historic sites and other downtown attractions, restaurant, and hotels. Additionally, the museum placement in the district could serve as a catalyst to aid in the much-needed preservation (or revitalization) of the Farish Street neighborhood.

Author

joiedevie

Date

2008-02-20T12:52:12-06:00

ID

98684

Comment

Okay folks...here's your opportunity..You know I always..well..yeah..ALWAYS talk about action as opposed to talk..well..now's your chance..this issue is at a tipping point AND..its really about to slip out of our hands..so here's what ya do.. There will be a press conference, Monday 2:30pm @ Smith robertson museum and its necessary that anyone Black, White, JSU, tougaloo, whoever that feels like the museum should be downtown shows up on time and ready to voice an opinion.. NewJackson..now's your time to DO something..If you wish to start that petition..DO IT..or..you can get as many JSU students who are with us to show up with signs and placards supporting a downtown location.. L.W. you amass all tougaloo grads who, although they LOVE their school, realize that in the best interest of a healthy city we need that museum downtown..nows your chance to dictate some policy There will be a powerful group of people at that podium folks..you'll see..that ALL feel like that museum needs to be downtown and they carry WEIGHT trust me..but we need the audience packed..nothing worse than shining light on a cause, throwing a press conference, and having only the people calling it show up..this is going to be an impromptu pep rally for downtown!! Start your email blasts TODAY..get on your phone..call and text..this is serious biz....

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-20T13:07:51-06:00

ID

98685

Comment

I meant **2:00pm** not 2:30

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-20T13:35:45-06:00

ID

98686

Comment

I got it on my calendar, Kaze. Thanks for the notice.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-20T13:36:19-06:00

ID

98687

Comment

I'll be there with a posse.

Author

joiedevie

Date

2008-02-20T13:44:54-06:00

ID

98688

Comment

Excellent, Kaze. We'll be there. And folks, please plan to show up. What a great chance to send a message to the media and the world (and the museum folks) that a multiracial group of people wants a civil rights museum downtown and that we want our inner city to thrive after everything it's been through. Please, please show up.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-20T13:50:43-06:00

ID

98689

Comment

L.W. you amass all tougaloo grads who, although they LOVE their school, realize that in the best interest of a healthy city we need that museum downtown..nows your chance to dictate some policy I'll see who I can get in touch with.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-20T14:00:03-06:00

ID

98690

Comment

Oh, and lest anyone can forget, a big reason for the museum downtown would be to commemorate what so many young people had the courage to do back in the 1960s. It is so appropriate that young folks (and young-at-heart) stand together on this.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-20T14:01:54-06:00

ID

98691

Comment

Kaze, is there something specific you would like for Tougaloo grads to do to help? I need to know what to tell them.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-20T14:37:26-06:00

ID

98692

Comment

Have them show up! in good numbers. amongst the pundits, the word is that Tougaloo grads are such staunch loyalists that no ''real'' Tougaloo grad will go against the school on this issue. on the flip side unfortunately..If you dont want the museum there, you're a Tougaloo hater or don't like black folks and want to hijack their history...which just isnt the case this time. Its simple 1-2-3 economics.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-20T15:16:53-06:00

ID

98693

Comment

Got your email, Kaze. I'll spread the word and hope that they'll come. I understand loyalty and all that, but if they can remember how Jackson has suffered the past few decades thanks to white/economic flight, that should make them want to help. I love my alma mater, but I love my hometown, too, and I must do what is best for it. I don't know what some of the alumni will think of me after this, but I'm willing to take that risk.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-20T15:24:49-06:00

ID

98694

Comment

Got you Kaze I'll start the Petition. Homegrown BABY this is grassroots for real. YES WE CAN YES WE CAN.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-20T15:27:24-06:00

ID

98695

Comment

L.W. Hopefully, I think they'll say that you're doing Tougaloo proud by standing up for whats smart..for the greater good!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-20T15:59:02-06:00

ID

98696

Comment

I almost can't blame Tougaloo for trying to cite the museum in their area. With the work going on to realign West County Line Road just east of the campus, there is a golden opportunity I think for the school to develop some of their land and make some much needed money. But I think it's more important to have the museum centrally located where it can contribute to the synergy of downtown with JSU, Farish Street and other downtown projects. A poster earlier in the thread mentioned the old black library at Mill Street. I remember there was an effort about 5-6 years ago to redevelop that library as an attraction, but nothing has really happened with it that I can tell. The civil rights museum, especially if located near that building, could revive that project and work in tandem with the library to create a "Civil Rights Corridor" at Mill Street (but also includes Farish Street and the Smith Robertson Center) that could educate people on the efforts to end legal segregation in Mississippi while also helping to revitalize that area.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-20T16:23:06-06:00

ID

98697

Comment

Sorry, I meant "site", not "cite" in the first line of my last post. (that proposed edit feature can't come fast enough)

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-20T16:31:54-06:00

ID

98698

Comment

That "old black library" if I remember correctly was the George Washington Carver branch. I have such fond memories of that library because you see my granny couldn't take anywhere else. I wish I could remember the names of the librarians, but I remember their faces. They had summer reading programs and we would get certificates. I did have mine somewhere.... oh I regress, sorry. Downtown is the only way to go for this museum...

Author

lanier77

Date

2008-02-20T17:26:29-06:00

ID

98699

Comment

To me the main thing is to attract the most people possible to learn or remember the struggles we went though (and are still enduring). This is not a project to revitalize anything; it is to tell a story that all need to hear and experience. Downtown Jackson is the only place that can produce the greatest number of visitors possible. So, those that chose Tougaloo were being selfish or shortsighted in not wanting the greatest number of people to be able to enjoy this tribute to the Movement. It needs to be "in our midst" not on the edge. I certainly hope the Governor's Commission will reconsider its decision to locate in Madison County.

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-02-20T20:21:18-06:00

ID

98700

Comment

Note to Willezurmacht: From what I hear, the land is not being "purchased" for the Museum; it is being LEASED.

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-02-21T07:10:43-06:00

ID

98701

Comment

Leased from whom? To whom? Sorry if I'm being dense here, but we do need to know what is going on.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-21T10:33:18-06:00

ID

98702

Comment

The press conference has been changed to 1pm on Monday folks.. To better accomodate lawmakers schedules. We're calling in all the big guns we can.. SO PLEASE BE THERE 1PM(NOT 2PM) SMITH ROBERTSON MUSEUM ON MONDAY..WITH SIGNS A BLAZIN!!!!!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-22T13:43:48-06:00

ID

98703

Comment

Thanks, Kaze. I'll resend my emails and updat my blog. I haven't heard from anyone yet, but I'm still hopeful.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T14:00:01-06:00

ID

98704

Comment

updat = update

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T14:01:05-06:00

ID

98705

Comment

I love you, Mr. Kamikaze, But I am not going to follow political advice from someone named after a cult of suicide pilots ;)

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-22T14:48:47-06:00

ID

98706

Comment

Wille, would you prefer to listen to Brad Franklin, then? :-P

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T14:57:28-06:00

ID

98707

Comment

Then dont Will..your choice,,however backwards it may be..Not doing it for you to "follow" me anywhere but for you stand beside me as we try to better our city..that kind of backwrds thinking can only hurt progress,,and FYI I chose the name because it means divine wind in Japanese..look it up..and stop thinking negative..and L.W. easy on the name dear...know youre trying to help but sheesh lol. This movement can go with or without Will..its cool.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-22T15:02:26-06:00

ID

98708

Comment

Don't worry, Kaze, I won't be pulling that out of my hat again anytime soo. :-D

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T15:33:41-06:00

ID

98709

Comment

Oh, Kaze, did you resend that email you sent yesterday?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T15:43:48-06:00

ID

98710

Comment

Kaze i c you on Facebook working that young people crowd man thats smart, i think you gone get a big turnout, i'll be there and it looks like students from JSU belhaven and Millsaps snd hinds cc.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-22T16:39:43-06:00

ID

98711

Comment

How's Facebook working for you, Kaze? I'm still waiting for replies.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T17:49:18-06:00

ID

98712

Comment

It means the divine wind of revenge. It is a negative connotation, not my attitude.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-23T19:42:02-06:00

ID

98713

Comment

From the teacher's perspective, who won't be there because I'll be teaching, when we came to Jackson for field trips we went to the capital. Time contraints would leave a Tougaloo museum off the itenarary. We would stick to the MS Museum of Art and the BIG exhibts (Ramesses (sp) comes to mind) Also, this is the first year Mississippi schools have been REQUIRED to teach the Civil Rights Movement. Sad, but true. And as a tourist to Memphis, I like to get my downtown hotel and WALK or TROLLY to places like their Civil Rights museum, Sun Records, etc. It doesn't make any other places in Memphis where injustices occured less important. And we never go to Graceland. Not driving when I'm staying downtown.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-02-24T09:17:24-06:00

ID

98714

Comment

Also, the biggest gripe of the SPQ wannabes has been transportation. They have shuttles to go to the "Queen" places. Driving to Tougaloo is not going to happen.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-02-24T09:19:31-06:00

ID

98715

Comment

Right, and if the SPQ hotel was downtown, then they could walk to more.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-24T10:24:56-06:00

ID

98716

Comment

Oh, if you got the new Tougaloo program with the year in review, you'll see ol' Haley getting an award from the school. May explain his silence, and the influence they put on him and the committee. I'm sure "an award" wouldn't do it; but, the fact that more blacks voted for Haley than ever kinda shows that some kind of deal was struck somewhere.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-24T10:53:27-06:00

ID

98717

Comment

SPQ hotel used to be the Walthall. Think they outgrew it.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-02-24T12:30:50-06:00

ID

98718

Comment

Yeah, prolly (as they would say). I wish they were back in the Marriott though. Downtown could use them. And for us locals it's no fun driving way up to the hotel and then back down in parade traffic. That's why I stopped doing that part. It was such a logistical pain. But regardless the Queens have been great for the city. And at least the Hilton is in Jackson and there are great people there.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-24T12:43:37-06:00

ID

98719

Comment

This is OT, but has anyone heard about the possible sale of the Walthall? It has been on the market for a few months now and I would like to see it receive an infusion of $$$. I have talked with various people at the hotel and all they would confirm was that a sale is pending.

Author

tombarnes

Date

2008-02-24T12:48:13-06:00

ID

98720

Comment

Everyone please come out tomorrow for the press conference at 1 PM at the Smith Robertson Museum and Cultural Center. Hugely important. This museum should be downtown. Among other reasons, in downtown it will be a constant reminder of our history. Be there tomorrow if you can.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-02-24T18:08:43-06:00

ID

98721

Comment

Wonder how the vote on the Governor's Commission would go if ALL TOUGALOO GRADUATES HAD TO abstain from voting? 1:00 PM TODAY FOR THE PRESS CONFERENCE. At Smith Robertson Museum. That's in the area where the Museum SHOULD BE LOCATED. Hope to see you all there. PS: To Ladd: I believe I heard that the land proposed for the site would be leased from Tougaloo College.

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-02-25T09:12:12-06:00

ID

98722

Comment

Yes, Chris 1pm don't forget! Everyone be there!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-25T09:23:48-06:00

ID

98723

Comment

WAPT mentioned the rally on the news this morning.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T10:52:02-06:00

ID

98724

Comment

We do some work in Midtown and yesterday handed out flyers to the residents in Midtown to promote the rally and encourage them to action. We're hoping that some from the neighborhood will turn out to support this... we got some great feedback from the residents.

Author

sross

Date

2008-02-25T11:02:07-06:00

ID

98725

Comment

It was a great rally today with a good turnout considering the venue. Great job by all involved in organizing it, and good comments from Kaze and the Cap Green developer Carlton Brown. I'm looking forward to learning other people's thoughts about the rally.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T14:44:37-06:00

ID

98726

Comment

Wow, what a turnout! I thought it was going to be a rally, but t was a press conference, so I was the only one with a poster. Oops. Well, they gave out American flags, so it was okay. Anyway, there was so many people that some had to stand up in the back of the room or in the hallway. There had to have been at least fifty people. Besides Dr. McLemore, Councilwoman Barrett-Simon, Coucilman Tillman, the mayor, Rep. Alice Clark, Robert Graham, the Calhouns, "Pops" Watkins, Ben Allen, Susan Lunardini and some other notables were there. I liked it when Dr. McLemore said that the press conference was pro-downtown and NOT anti-Tougaloo. Glad he emphasized that.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T14:52:36-06:00

ID

98727

Comment

LW, I was thinking it was closer to 100 people! I'm almost certain. I was struck by the young lady from Tougaloo who commented about students security concerns if the museum were placed on or near campus. I actually hadn't thought about it like that, but it was interesting to know that at least a few current students were interested in having the museum downtown as well. I also found the comments about John Horhn's characterization of the City's presentation interesting. I'd love to hear an objective take on that. I still believe that other forces are at play besides how the COJ presented its case for a downtown site.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T15:14:59-06:00

ID

98728

Comment

jeff, when it comes to numbers, I tend to underestimate. Plus, I was on the second row, so I guess it was harder for me to see that way. Glad you were able to make it. Too bad we didn't meet.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T15:21:20-06:00

ID

98729

Comment

"Other forces at play"-- Freemasons? Trilateral commission? Aliens?

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-25T15:23:31-06:00

ID

98730

Comment

Oh yeah - watch the news. WLBT and WJTV were there.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T15:25:07-06:00

ID

98731

Comment

...and MPB, too.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T15:26:16-06:00

ID

98732

Comment

It was nice and informative and to see the blacks and white and young and old there, it just reinstated to me why it should be Downtown, So lets get the petition stage going.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-25T15:28:03-06:00

ID

98733

Comment

WAPT, too, I'm pretty sure. It was an excellent group of people. It's the most diverse crowd I've ever seen in the Smith Robertson, which was great. And great to meet you, New Jack.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T15:30:43-06:00

ID

98734

Comment

"Other forces at play" Lol, I didn't mean to make it sound so nefarious. I just think it makes better sense to put the museum downtown and I don't understand the thinking of those who think Tougaloo is a better site, including the consultants who made the recommendation.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T15:32:04-06:00

ID

98735

Comment

Nice it was Ladd, And it was hard for me not to stand up and tell Frank to stay focused on the issue at hand. But i think Carlton Brown Made plenty of buiseness sense and hes From New York he knows how a city should be built.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-25T15:36:08-06:00

ID

98736

Comment

jeff, when it comes to numbers, I tend to underestimate. Plus, I was on the second row, so I guess it was harder for me to see that way. Glad you were able to make it. Too bad we didn't meet. I was one of those fashionably late souls who stood in the back until we were informed about the vacant seats up front! I saw the JFP crew in da house a few rows up but I had to leave right after the conference so maybe I'll introduce myself another time.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T15:36:39-06:00

ID

98737

Comment

LW, you went to that. Did you have on a Tougaloo shirt? I take it you didn't get the email I got. I was told if I showed up I would get my a@@ whipped for treason, misdemeanors, mutiny or something along those lines. Good work everyone. See you soon at the Civil Rights Museum at or Tougaloo College. I applaud the efforts to stop a moment whose time has come.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-25T15:38:37-06:00

ID

98738

Comment

Well, I didn't have a Tougaloo shirt on (don't know where it is), but one of the two Tougaloo students I saw there was wearing one. It was pink and green, so it must have been one of your sorors.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T15:45:48-06:00

ID

98739

Comment

And it was hard for me not to stand up and tell Frank to stay focused on the issue at hand. But i think Carlton Brown Made plenty of buiseness sense and hes From New York he knows how a city should be built. NewJack, were you the one with the bow tie? Anyway, I wish he would stay on the topic, too. He kept talking about the abandoned building next to Smith Robertson. However, I did agree about the Sun-n-Sand being a possible museum location. Pikersam said that further up in this thread.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T15:52:03-06:00

ID

98740

Comment

Nope not me i was towards the back with A JSU shirt on, but it was a very positive event i have to say no negatives and what was funny to me was when Mclemore ask was there anymore former mayors in the crowd somebody pointed at Frank it was funny.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-25T15:59:33-06:00

ID

98741

Comment

Right. Had Melton left it at his first comments, he would have been fine. But he ended up clownish as he kept trying to interrupt McLemore to talk about his own "benevolence" at the Y for 25 years. And all his comments about how great McLemore and "Mrs. Simone" are were so empty and degrading, considering how he's treated both of them. I really hope that the mayor isn't scaring off the national museum folks. Did you hear him say that the city would make the final decision. B.S.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T16:01:12-06:00

ID

98742

Comment

Yep, it was a sight to behold. Donna and I kept nudging each other and whispering like two schoolgirls. It's hard not to say anything about that kind of performance.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T16:07:59-06:00

ID

98743

Comment

Yep, I almost feel sorry for him, but he's a grown man and ought to figure out how to behave in public. Or, as someone I talked to afterward advised, "get a babysitter." And that doesn't mean those two high-priced police officers who follow him around, doing his bidding. That said, though, Melton didn't derail the positive nature of the gathering. For the most part, people ignored him and paid attention to the people at the mic who were making so much sense and not trying to sell themselves. Which, of course, is what we have to do until the unfortunate Melton mayoral incident is behind the city.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T16:12:01-06:00

ID

98744

Comment

The Sun and Sand would make a good spot, but it's not yards from I-55 and I-220 simultaneously. Nor does it access I-55, I-220, State Street, Eddie Grill and the Tougaloo Co-Op at the same time. I'm beginning to see why the Tougaloo area was chosen. I want mention that hot bed of Civil Rights movement where MLK King, Harry Belafonte, Stokely Carmichael, Julian Bond, Robert Kennedy, Fannie Lou Hamer, Nikki Giovanni, Anne Moody, et al, came to teach, rest, learn and prepare to fight James Crow and his Kluker friends.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-25T16:17:24-06:00

ID

98745

Comment

In addition to Eddie's Grill and the Tougaloo Co-Op, the only place I could get an egg and bologna sandmich from 74-78, after the cafeteria closed, there is Dorsey's Used Cars and Washer and Dryer Repair Shop on State Street, and the remnants of Momma T's, where Tougaloo's bad students used to walk thru the back gate to in order to dance, smoke dope and drank corn liquor with grown folks, before the Milsaps kids started bringing the factory made whiskey and other illegal substances to campus.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-25T16:29:53-06:00

ID

98746

Comment

L.W. I was sitting behind you and Donna and was trying to resist chiming in on Melton's antics as well. I try not to be in the same room with him because of my STRONG (negative) feelings about him. However, I was willing to put aside my personal feelings for what I believe to be a positive step for the city. I was thrilled that so many people turned out. Hope the newscasts show the big, diverse crowd. And Jackson Progressives were there in full force too. DOWNTOWN JACKSON! DOWNTOWN JACKSON!

Author

urbangypsy

Date

2008-02-25T16:33:54-06:00

ID

98747

Comment

It would figure that a state with such a driving culture would try to put a major museum at the intersection of two *interstates*. Not even Memphis or Birmingham were sucked into that kind of thinking. Maybe the one in Memphis should have been next to the airport. Wouldn't be the same, though. The problem is that it's short-sighted. I loved Carlton Brown's message about how economic empowerment and redevelopment of inner cities *must* be a primary today to honor the battles of the Civil Rights Movement. Cloistering the museum on leased property from a black private college, even it's the amazing Tougaloo, is not going to serve the same purpose. Downtown Jackson needs the civil rights museum, and the civil rights museum needs Downtown Jackson. And it really is going to look like the powers-that-be figured how to segregate it, I'm afraid. That's the message it'll send to the world, long after everyone forgets that the location committee was packed with Tougaloo grads and the co-chair of the Commission is on the board of Tougaloo. I sure hope Barbour isn't using undue influence with him to keep it away from the governor's mansion. That's not an accusation, but in a city where urban renewal was used to destroy "the block" that connected downtown white commerce from downtown black commerce, it's really not so hard to believe. Not to mention from a governor who ran his campaign complaining about all those people who "attack our flag." In other words, I hope the Tougaloo folks pushing this aren't allowing their own sentimentality to cloud their long-range vision on the message it's going to send if we don't at least match the urban appeal of a Memphis or a Birmingham. We have a chance to do this one right, and we're at risk of blowing it. Also, I would respectfully, that the museum shouldn't be about deciding where the "center" of the struggle was and putting it there in tribute. I mean, what about Natchez? McComb? Greenwood? Jackson State? Meridian? Canton? It makes complete sense to put it downtown in the state's largest city, and in the capitol (in the shadow of the Capitol where the Sovereignty Commission was created and funded and near the old Citizens Council office site) to make a point to ourselves and the world that we mean it. It doesn't make sense to play favorites with the various outposts of the struggle because they were *all* amazing. And Kaze makes an excellent point: Why wasn't there someone under 40 on the Location Committee? It's shameful how people in this state disrespect younger people and their contributions.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T16:38:36-06:00

ID

98748

Comment

L.W. I was sitting behind you and Donna and was trying to resist chiming in on Melton's antics as well. I thought that was you. HEY, GIRL! Ben Allen had a lot to say about the growth of downtown Jackson, including the possibility of having 20,000 residents living there in 10 years. Wow. Ray, I never heard of Eddie's Grill, but I used to love to eat the Co-Op's greasy onion rings. Mmm, fat. That's also where I first tried Otis Spunkmeyer cookies - made fresh.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T16:47:22-06:00

ID

98749

Comment

..."In other words, I hope the Tougaloo folks pushing this aren't allowing their own sentimentality to cloud their long-range vision on the message it's going to send if we don't at least match the urban appeal of a Memphis or a Birmingham. We have a chance to do this one right, and we're at risk of blowing it." ..Thats EXACTLY what appears to have happened. Selfish, sentimental reasoning clouding better business judgement and better common sense. Its the way we've allowed this city to do business for too long. Why is JACKSON the only city of the ones with civil rights museums that has to have a debate over whether or not the museum should be downtown? On paper, point by point, Tougaloo is no contest for the facts that tout downtown as the best spot. Only one with a purely emotional attachment can attempt (and I mean "attempt") to argue for tougaloo as a better location.. How did the city get duped? .."Also, I would respectfully, that the museum shouldn't be about deciding where the "center" of the struggle was and putting it there in tribute. I mean, what about Natchez? McComb? Greenwood? Jackson State? Meridian? Canton?" Im amazed at how gradually tougaloo has made itself the "epicenter" (as Beverly hogan put it) of the civil rights movement. And how they're using that as their selling point. Nice, we do acknowledge your contributions but tougaloo did no more or no less that say JSU or Farish district, or Natchez, or The Delta..It was a movement and no one can lay stake as being the lead. Ed Blackmon's claim that had it not been for Tougaloo the civil rights movement here would have been a decade behind. A decade? WTF? Me thinks thou dost protest too much sir. This is not a contest to see who earned the most stripes. This is about a city that is floundering financially.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-25T16:55:15-06:00

ID

98750

Comment

Donna makes a compelling argument here. It's hard to ignore all the Tougaloo people packed on that committe. If I weren't bias I could hear it better. There weren't anyone under 40 on the committee because we learned from Morgan Freeman while playing Joe Clark as he stood on the top of school building at Eastside High and imploring or urging Sams to jump off the building to a quick death rather than a slow one thru drugs, "that the problem with young folks is they don't know sh1t."

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-25T17:06:45-06:00

ID

98751

Comment

Jeff..The City's presentation was definitely up to snuff. But once the fix(oops) voting was in it may have paled in comparison after the dog and pony show the other site committe put on for the curators..But that, sir will be in the story hopefully. I dunno, I wont put him out there like that but Sen horne may have been "convinced" that the city's presentation was not that good. Especially when you're the COJ and youre told you cant bring in any extra supporters..But I digress :-)

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-25T17:11:13-06:00

ID

98752

Comment

I just called Charles Evers and he said he didn't know anything about the RALLY, but he also said he supports it being put Downtown and thinks if its put anywhere else it would be crazy, he said he is going to call some of the other commision members.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-25T17:16:01-06:00

ID

98753

Comment

Cute Ray..but my next comment was going to be one berating the comittee for completely ignoring the under 40 set..The demo that will have to (ahem) live with the decisions that these folks make today..I think not. As I said, we've got to change the way we do biz 'round here. ..and if one more committee is called and the African Americans that they reach out to are Reuben Anderson, Leroy walker, socrates Garret, Issac Byrd. etc. etc..I may puke. Love yall to death. Much respect but DAMN! Hell, I was looking for Al And Jesse to be on that list next.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-25T17:17:42-06:00

ID

98754

Comment

Go, Mr. Evers! Good work, NewJack. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T17:41:33-06:00

ID

98755

Comment

That's great, NewJack!

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T17:46:22-06:00

ID

98756

Comment

"Ben Allen had a lot to say about the growth of downtown Jackson, including the possibility of having 20,000 residents living there in 10 years. " Where are these mythical people coming from?

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-25T17:46:59-06:00

ID

98757

Comment

Donna, WAPT was there. They're doing a segment on it during the 6:00 news.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T18:07:24-06:00

ID

98758

Comment

They're not "mythical," Bubba. Do you understand how many units are under development downtown? Do people not frickin' listen!?! We may have some of the most negative people I've ever seen in this state. That said, we also have some the most positive and optimistic who believe in our future. Them are my types.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T18:19:03-06:00

ID

98759

Comment

Hey, Bubba, haven't you heard? "If you build it, they will come..." Kaze, glad you included us thirtysomethings in your call for more inclusion by the decisionmakers. I once thought you only advocated for the under 30 crowd.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T18:23:44-06:00

ID

98760

Comment

I know how many units are underdevelopement. Just because they are being built doen't mean they are going to be filled. I am not being negative. I am just wonder where 20,000 new people are going to come from.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-25T18:25:23-06:00

ID

98761

Comment

BubbaT [Boy is that APPROPRIATE], "Ben Allen had a lot to say about the growth of downtown Jackson, including the possibility of having 20,000 residents living there in 10 years. " Where are these mythical people coming from?" "BUBBA" Across the country [that would be the USA], 5 TO 10 % of the people in a metropolitan area, prefer an "urban lifestyle". See Little Rock, Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga, etc]. We are no different. 80% of the developments in Jackson [$3 B] are from out of state developers [who "get it"]. Our biggest challenge is convincing our own people [not those "here", but those folks who are "around us"]. It's happening... Read up. Don't rely on the drive by media. Call me. I will SHOW you who. 601 353 9800

Author

Ben Allen

Date

2008-02-25T18:28:31-06:00

ID

98762

Comment

It was nice to finally meet you, Mr. Allen. :-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T18:37:07-06:00

ID

98763

Comment

Ben, So the 20,000 people are going to come from the burbs and across the state? Hope it happens. I still think it going to be a hard sell. If you don't like my name take that up with my parents they named me Bubba.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-25T18:41:20-06:00

ID

98764

Comment

Bubba, is is so hard for you to believe that here in Mississippi, just like in every other state, there are many young people, empty nesters and even families who prefer a walking, urban lifestyle than commuting to bland bedroom communities every day? There is no "hard sell" about that. They are out there. The city just needs to respond, which many are trying to do, even as people from the left and right, black and white, try to torpedo it. The inferiority complex in this state is so hard to watch manifest. People, we are just as good as anyone else. We have people of all types: liberals, progressives, conservatives, urban, rural, suburban, creatives, professionals, service class. "Our values" are not what some yokel tells us in racist TV ads (shame on Landrum for treating his constituents like moronic bigots); beyond the love of family, our values vary, and that is a good thing. I'm so sick of watching people in the state I was born and raised in try to run off people with different ideas and preferences, whether it's about where to live or anything else. Let me say this once: THIS STATE IS NOT OWNED BY ONE TYPE OF PERSON. It belongs to all of us, and we are going to make it into what we went it to be. To paraphrase one of Melton's biggest supporters: "We are not packing. We are staying." And many of us are staying in the city because we don't like suburban life. There are plenty of people who do, and that's great for them. But they're not the whole state. This is why we have so much brain drain and economic flight: People with your brand of negativity run many of our brightest young people off to places where they're not made fun of for wanting to live and work in a city. The difference in today's Mississippi is that many of us who were running off are back, or aren't leaving in the first place, and we are taking our stand. This changes everything. For the better, I might add. The state can only prosper from all this energy, although we will continue to p!ss off a snively group of men who think they run the state. They don't. We all do.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T18:57:58-06:00

ID

98765

Comment

Donna, I have not said anything negative about Jackson or the developements downtown. I just don't see 20,000 new people moving into downtown Jackson. New apartments,convention centers, and museums won't fix the problems with the JPS, the city gov't, general infrastructure, and crime(in Jackson metro in general not downtown) the reason alot people left Jackson or wouldn't move there.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-25T19:29:39-06:00

ID

98766

Comment

People with your brand of negativity run many of our brightest young people off to places where they're not made fun of for wanting to live and work in a city. The difference in today's Mississippi is that many of us who were running off are back, or aren't leaving in the first place, and we are taking our stand. When I was in school, many of my classmates said that the first thing they would do after they graduated was to leave the state. I didn't understand why because I didn't want to leave. When I was in college, I considered moving to Chicago for a while, but I changed my mind. A couple of years ago, Atlanta started looking really good to me because I felt like I would fit in better over there. However, I realized that I could get what I wanted out of a city by supporting efforts that would change Jackson for the better, and I'm thankful to now have the opportunity to participate in the process.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T19:34:16-06:00

ID

98767

Comment

Bubba, the flight—and subsequent decay of tax decay and infrastruction—was about racism. Inevitably, white flight is followed later by "economic flight" because the white flight did exactly what it was supposed to: cripple the city. There are many people who don't buy all the crime booger-bears and, indeed, know that they are safer living in Jackson and not risking the higher incidence of car accidents that come for commuters. And who know that most of the crime here is drug-related. So if people who move from the suburbs can restrain themselves from dealing drugs or purchasing from dealers, they will be, statistically, quite a bit safer than they are in much of the state, including the suburbs, which have the same kinds of domestic crimes, not to mention drug abuse, as the city. There are also many, many people who get really excited about being a part of something bigger than themselves like lifting their state off the bottom of the barrell. That won't happen until negative attitudes like yours—which is exactly what not believing that a mere 20,000 Mississippians and newcomers (like UMC docs) might possibly want to live downtown is—are either changed, or ignored like the plague (which they are; a plague on the city) on our way to making the city (and thus the state) into what we know she can be. As far as I am concerned, get on the train or watch it zoom by from the sidelines. It'll happen with you or without you. L.W., there is *nothing* more fulfilling than joining with positive, active people who work for positive change, is there? And nothing more exasperating than listening to people so down on our city that they don't even know what is really happening around them. It is happening, Bubba. And I'll be honest: We city-lovers don't want all the people who don't want to live amid diversity and a vibrant urban setting back in the city. Talk about the kind of people one wouldn't want to hang out with! Gross. (In fact, we have a handful here we'd give y'all if you'd take 'em.) Fortunately, it won't take any of the naysayers to make this work. Just watch. I haven't misled y'all, yet, have I? Nope. And this one is a slam dunk for me. Why? Because I've seen the studies, done my homework and know the determination of the people working in favor of downtown instead of whining about crime and "problems" that, somehow, aren't their fault. I've also lived in other places that had much worse crime issues (if not the same awful inferiority complex) that turned their cities around. Crime is not the No. 1 issue here; self-loathing is. So go loathe somewhere outside Jackson. We've got work to do.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T19:44:01-06:00

ID

98768

Comment

BubbaT:I just don't see 20,000 new people moving into downtown Jackson. My lovely wife and I will probably move back someday- so that leaves only 19,998....

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-25T19:53:48-06:00

ID

98769

Comment

Hey, this is fun. We could start a list. ;-) Lori and her boyfriend just moved back near downtown. So they should count, too. 19,996.... I've actually heard that suburban developers are worried about the long view because they know that the trend is toward urban living and away from suburban. Maybe that's why there is such an effort to lure businesses away from the city—because they believe people will want to live near their mega-mall. Many will. Others will not, however. Many urban-dwellers go to a mall a few times a year, and shop in smaller "Main Street" businesses the rest of the time. And who wants to live amid mall traffic? Shudder.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-25T19:59:40-06:00

ID

98770

Comment

I delivered flowers in NE Jackson over Valentine's Day for a florist friend, and today I drove the old SUV through Belhaven. I know that those two areas are *not* representative of the entire city, but I did notice that there were far fewer "for sale" signs in Jackson then there are in the suburbs. Don't know exactly what that means, but I would suspect that it at least shows that there are far fewer city dwellers going anywhere...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-25T20:27:02-06:00

ID

98771

Comment

"Where are these mythical people coming from?" " it ain't a myth. Everything, office building wise, that has been converted to living space is leased and waiting lists are long. And bigger things are coming soon. And they ain't conversions.......It ain't a myth. Your downtown is the "comsumate" walkable community. It couldn'g have been dreamed up by a new urbanist any better. It's a new urbanists dream.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2008-02-25T20:35:27-06:00

ID

98772

Comment

I also want to move to or close to downtown, but I won't count myself until I've actually done it. And to lure the topic back to the museum, will there be an admission charged to enter? I wouldn't mind paying a fee for something worthwhile.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-02-25T20:56:20-06:00

ID

98773

Comment

Naysayers, In case you missed the memo, JPS is working double time fix some of the problems that have cropped up in the last 10-15years. It's not going to happen overnight nor does any expect it to but programs like the Montesory school, where a 100 percent of the kids are scoring above grade level, are making difference. Parents, (egads JPS parents are involved and they care) are pushing for more programs like these. A rental property or house for sale in Belhaven or Foundren is snapped up in a matter of days(rental) or weeks (sales). Oh my people want to actually live, (stop the presses!!) in the city limits. , There's so much going on in Jackson-so many good things- and people like you just continue to ignore it. That's fine with me. I have no interest in living in Gluckstadt. Some people have been listening to the little boy cry wolf for so long that they don't even check to see if the wolf is still alive.

Author

msgrits

Date

2008-02-25T21:06:00-06:00

ID

98774

Comment

Guys I hope the suggestion about the Sun n Sand would include bulldozing that thing.......and using the land.....tell me yes.....please....... I mean how cool would that be...right next door to the Robert E Lee......

Author

ATLExile

Date

2008-02-25T21:15:13-06:00

ID

98775

Comment

I mean how cool would that be...right next door to the Robert E Lee...... I think Lee would try to return from the grave with a sledgehammer.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T21:24:15-06:00

ID

98776

Comment

And Lee & Melton could beat each other to death.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-02-25T21:34:27-06:00

ID

98777

Comment

L.W. "I think Lee would try to return from the grave with a sledgehammer" what ever it takes to get that hideous motel torn down.........and replaced with a new gleaming contemporary Civil Rights "Study and History Center".............

Author

ATLExile

Date

2008-02-25T21:39:32-06:00

ID

98778

Comment

Actually, why not preserve elements of the Sun n' Sand in a way which might draw a parallel with the museum in Memphis. The motel is outdated and tired, but it is representative of early 1960's architecture in a kitschy way which might just deserve recognition. if not complete preservation. The sign, for instance, with its elements of Mondrian, is a really interesting period piece. The Tiki lounge inside is also funky. Think of the Ace Hotel in Portland or other motels in places like San francisco and Austin which have been preserved. The Sun n' Sand could possibly be resurrected as a funky retro motel. I think that tearing down most of it and preserving certain elements is probably more realistic. just because it doesn't have white columns does not mean that it's not worth preserving.

Author

tombarnes

Date

2008-02-25T22:39:07-06:00

ID

98779

Comment

Actually the R E Lee Bldg is a whole block away from the Sun n' Sand. But I think the SnS would be a great site for the museum since it's right off High Street and would allow easy access from I-55 without making a bunch of turns.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T22:39:56-06:00

ID

98780

Comment

I just hate seeing things get torn down only to be replaced by new things. Preserve the Sun n Sand- maybe even reopen it- with any luck, you just might need the extra rooms...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-25T23:45:48-06:00

ID

98781

Comment

Donna, I don't see how me not thinking there are 20,000 people lined up to move downtown is talking negative about Jackson. I really hope all the plans they have for Jackson work, because I hate OUR capital city to be like it is now. I really glad you want to live in a walkable urban area, but that's not for me and neither are the burbs. As soon as my kids graduate high school, I off to some part of the state where my nearest neighbor is a mile away. I only moved from the Delta 6 years ago so they could go to better schools here and to have more for them to do.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-26T00:24:40-06:00

ID

98782

Comment

From what I hear, the Sun 'n Sand was nixed by the consultants because demolition would cost too much. Check it out with commission members though. I agree, it would be an awsome sight and Ray, it ain't too far from I-55 for the Legislature and the herd of lobbiest to make it. High Street was redone for that purpose wasn't it?

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-02-26T06:11:25-06:00

ID

98783

Comment

UNBELIEVABLE!! Where can you find good help in this town?? The Clarion Ledger relegates the Civil Rights museum story to a brief on page 2 of the Metro section..A BRIEF?! losing out on pg 1 to the condos replacing rapids... Thanks! you guys are a huge help. God help us! On an issue THIS important it loses to a story on new condos coming up at the Resevoir?? (sigh)..

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-26T07:15:41-06:00

ID

98784

Comment

I just hate seeing things get torn down only to be replaced by new things. Preserve the Sun n Sand- maybe even reopen it- with any luck, you just might need the extra rooms... How viable is the hotel? I don't know anything about it besides the sign. It would be nice if the sign was preserved somewhere.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-26T07:23:02-06:00

ID

98785

Comment

On an issue THIS important it loses to a story on new condos coming up at the Resevoir?? (sigh).. Sigh x 2. Unless I missed it, WJTV didn't report the story at all. Didn't see it on there yesterday or today. Did anyone else see it?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-26T07:29:36-06:00

ID

98786

Comment

Typical, Kaze. But remember that their original story on the museum going to Tougaloo went on page 1A -- without including mention of the Tougaloo folks on the committee (although they, of course, knew that). Sounds like some bias toward Tougaloo on that metro desk that Agnew proclaims is oh, so "fair".

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-26T07:49:06-06:00

ID

98787

Comment

Donna, I don't see how me not thinking there are 20,000 people lined up to move downtown is talking negative about Jackson. I do, Bubba. You seem to have a built-in negativity about it, starting with not believing it's possible to find 20,000 people int he whole state who want to live here. Then you listed a laundry list of problems with Jackson, which rely on the same naive list passed on commonly, and without listing a list of the corresponding negatives in the suburbs and beyond. This is exactly what I mean: You don't even know what you doing, it seems, but you're passing along the same schlock about the city that people think is gospel. That hurts the city. Of course, when we city-lovers point out why we love it here over the suburbs in response, defensive suburbanites show up and complain about us bashing their choices, when in fact what we trying to do is balance all the bashing in order to help the city and, thus, the state. I urge you to wipe the sleep from your eyes and understand that not everyone has the same priorities and fears. Even in back-a$$ Mississippi where even our own residents think we're a bunch of hicks who hate the city. Just not true. But this discussion has unfolded many places on the site. Let's allow the civil-rights museum its own space.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-26T07:54:14-06:00

ID

98788

Comment

From what I hear, the Sun 'n Sand was nixed by the consultants because demolition would cost too much. Check it out with commission members though. I agree, it would be an awsome sight and Ray, it ain't too far from I-55 for the Legislature and the herd of lobbiest to make it. High Street was redone for that purpose wasn't it? Chris That may be the case; but, that shouldn't hinder the museum form being there. Supposedly, Haley wants this to be the "premier" Civil Rights center in the US, therefore nothing should be a hurdle. If it means another $500,000 then so be it! He shouldn't go around touting it the way he has, and then cow down to special interest! This from his own speech: One of the reasons this is so very important is that Mississippi was central to what was going on nationally. I look around the room at Charles Evers, John Peoples, and others who were directly involved in the national civil rights movement. You are going to see as we go through this process that, as I see it in my own mind, the museum should end up being the National Civil Rights Museum. That's why I am not calling it the "Mississippi Civil Rights Museum," but the "National Civil Rights Museum in Mississippi." There currently is really not, in a true sense, a National Civil Rights Museum. To me, that means Mississippi needs to do something world class. World class he says! Well, already we've done-in 'world class' by tucking it away from the epicenter of the State - downtown Jackson, and by worrying about monetary hurdles. Nothing, absolutely nothing, should stop this "National" museum from being world class! Yet, if the commission continues down the path they are on by putting it at Tougaloo, and worrying about money, then it will not be as great as planned. Seriously, do you think that the corporate sponsors they hope to attract are going to be willing to pony up as much money as they might if they know that it's attendance and viability will be hampered by being outside the 'tourist center' of Jackson, MS? So, either the Commission is saying they think Downtown Jackson is not world class or that they are willing to compromise the museum's future of being the premier "National" Civil Rights Museum by this awkward decision of placing it at Tougaloo.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-26T09:03:27-06:00

ID

98789

Comment

Donna, I didn't list whats wrong with the burbs because we weren't talking about the burbs. There plenty wrong with the burbs. I have a whole list of them too. Yes I did list what I think the problems with Jackson are, it's not perfect like you seem to think. But you are right this was suppose to be about the civil right museum and should get back on track.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-26T09:04:17-06:00

ID

98790

Comment

I want the museum down town for easy access to convention-goers, to attract visitors to the city, for ease of downtown workers, to get city revenues, et al. Jackson needs and deserves this more than Tougaloo, which is also a kind of Civil Rights Museum unto itself. Something will sooner or later come to the land near Tougaloo that hopefully will benefit the school in a meritorious fashion. I'm surprised Bevery Hogan won't relent because of the friction the location is calling. Tougaloo College, in my opinion, has always looked to the bigger picture. Mrs. Hogan is a good president but she's not George Owens, Tougaloo's president during the turbulent sixties, until the mid or late eighties. He made good decisions when duty called and pretended blindness, deafness, oblivion, indifference or inactivity when it was just as necessary to do so, like maybe now. Only a fool would put Tougaloo graduates and friends on a committee to decide an issue about Tougaloo. I could guess the outcome with about a 98% accuracy rate. I hope no one is capable of duping us on this issue. We will survive albeit with continued struggling without the museum on or near the campus.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-26T09:10:15-06:00

ID

98791

Comment

it's not perfect like you seem to think. That's a debate fallacy. I never said it was "perfect," or even implied it. No place is "perfect." If the city was "perfect," we wouldn't need to work so hard to get her back on her feet. And speaking of logic, the advantages or disadvantages of the 'burbs should be part of a discussion in which you're arguing that it's inconceivable that 20,000 Mississippians (and newcomers) would choose to live in Jackson over somewhere else in the state. If they work in this area, their choices are Jackson or its bedroom communities. It's interesting that you want to have that conversation, but only list the disadvantages of Jackson. With due respect, that indicates bias against the city from the second you brought up your skepticism of the 20,000 number.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-26T09:57:58-06:00

ID

98792

Comment

Ray, we're also hearing that downtown was told they could only bring three or four supporters to their presentation, and Tougaloo was allowed to fill the room. What is up with this stuff? It really starts to sound like a whole bunch of people—including many you think wouldn't—working against downtown. I mean, even Tougaloo needs Jackson to thrive.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-26T09:59:28-06:00

ID

98793

Comment

I agree Tougaloo needs Jackson to thrive.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-26T10:33:20-06:00

ID

98794

Comment

Traveler's Insurance just announced a new service center in downtown Jackson, several hundred jobs. A guy I met last week works at Trustmark & just moved to High St. where he can walk to work. But this isn't the thread for it, really...

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-26T12:10:00-06:00

ID

98795

Comment

Well, Izzy, it still ties in. It shows a future increase in foot traffic downtown, which is why the museum should be downtown. About Travelers: WJTV said they were moving into the UBS building on I-55, and that it would bring 75 jobs. Is there more than one? Let me find a link, and if I find something, I'll start a thread on it.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-26T12:21:55-06:00

ID

98796

Comment

I think it's the same one.

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-26T12:33:02-06:00