Ellington

That's the question the Salon "Broadsheet" (a blog for women—get it?) is asking on the topic of self-defense in domestic violence. The post starts:

Here's a question: If your husband domestically abuses you, should you be pardoned for killing him? That was the issue at hand on Monday when Gov. Ernie Fletcher granted "clemency, pardons or early parole reviews" to 21 women in Kentucky who were convicted of killing or trying to kill men who they say abused them, according to Louisville's Courier-Journal."

Previous Comments

ID

116023

Comment

I agree with the judge's ruling because the women acted in self-defense. At the same time, I wonder if I am being biased because if it were men being abused by women, would I feel the same way? I guess it would depend on how the woman was abusing the man, but why wouldn't I ask that same question about how the man was abusing the woman? Sigh, my head hurts.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-12-12T13:37:25-06:00

ID

116024

Comment

Perhaps this famous dictim from the age of Chivalry will enlighten us: "Kill them all God will sort them out"? I am all for vigilantism but beware the unintended consequences.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2007-12-12T13:39:48-06:00

ID

116025

Comment

Fortunately, Gov Fletcher had done his research in these cases and considered each carefully. It shouldn't be an automatic pass to freedom, however. The system always needs fine tuning.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-12-12T13:40:31-06:00

ID

116026

Comment

I agree, Iron.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-12-12T13:42:46-06:00

ID

116027

Comment

Sure, women should be pardoned for killing a person who has repeatedly physically abused and kept them from fleeing or walking away. A person who can commit these kinds of repeated acts needs to be locked up permamently or deceased. The world is a better place without abusers of all kind, especially physical abuser. I would also grant pardon to a man or child who can prove they were repeatedly physically abused by a spouse or parent. I'm not talking about normal discipline of a child, even if kind of old school style but doesn't exceed humane standards.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-12-12T13:49:13-06:00

ID

116028

Comment

LW what do you think of the female pregnant lawyer in Toledo Ohio who claimed 3 men abducted and drove her to Atlanta before releasing her? She later recanted. I knew she was lying from the outset as scared as the average guy is of a pregnant women.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-12-12T13:53:55-06:00

ID

116029

Comment

Ray, I saw that story on GMA, and I think that she should be punished in some form since government resources were used to look for her. Maybe she could do community service like the Runaway Bride. Other than that, I think that psychiatric help should be first and foremost. She must have had some sort of meltdown. I think she should be monitored closely after the baby is born for postpartum depression.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-12-12T14:20:02-06:00

ID

116030

Comment

I agree LW that she needs treatment, not jail. It's now reported she has had mental problems for a while. I'm also now hearing she said 2 men and a woman abducted her instead od 3 guys.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-12-12T14:24:32-06:00

ID

116031

Comment

Well, they did say her story was inconsistent.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-12-12T14:28:14-06:00

ID

116032

Comment

Hmm. How much abuse justifies a killing? Husband yells at his wife, calls her fat everyday, turns into a quivering pile of mush but never lays a hand on her, yet this is just as damaging as any fist.....How much abuse did the women give the guys here, since they are dead the only person available to defend them is the state. I'm somewhat skeptical about giving these ladies a pass just because they claimed abuse, making sure other motives aren't at play is a reasonable exercise, and while most of these pardons were probably justified, the fact that all these ladies presumably had a trial or chance at a trial to prove their case is worrysome.

Author

GLewis

Date

2007-12-12T14:57:07-06:00

ID

116033

Comment

I would have to be convinced the physical allegations are factual. Mental abuse while bad no doubt wouldn't justify the killing or pardon for me. I would expect the spouse to leave him somehow instead. Other motives are sometime at play. I had a man committed once based on the wife's and the man's doctor's statements. I never believed the woman was being abused or that the husband had mental problems. I didn't even believe the doctor knew what he was talking about, but I had known him over 20 years and knew he wouldn't lie purposely. It turned out she fooled the doctor into believing a story that wasn't factual. My instincts told me all along she was lying. The almighty gave me good instincts, and after that encounter I refuse to not trust them again cavalierly. I won't trust them in lieu of clear facts to the contrary, but I will require much proof that my instincts are wrong. As it soon turned out both of us got played, and the woman's intentions all along was to get with the other man she had been dating all the time while married to someone else.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-12-12T15:12:08-06:00

ID

116034

Comment

Heh. I have run into the concocted story to get somebody committed a few times, and I've learned the best thing to do is tell them a psychiatrist has to determine whether they need committment or not if the story doesn't ring true. More commonly though its the son or daughter from some state far away wanting access to the parents checking account because mom or dad isn't paying the bills, or so it is said and that is always a tricky can of worms since getting at the real truth of the matter isn't easy.

Author

GLewis

Date

2007-12-12T15:39:48-06:00

ID

116035

Comment

LW, MSBC is reporting that IKe Turner has died. Please start a blog on him as he was a musical icon and a Mississippi native. He was also instrumental in teaching Tina how to sing and shake her groove thing which contributed to her fame and fortune. I wonder if she will pay for the funeral and attend to pay tribute. Somebody needs to watch her as she views the body to make sure she doesn't slap the embalming fluid out of him, even at this late date.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-12-12T16:03:01-06:00

ID

116036

Comment

If the abused person's life is in imminent danger, then I can justify killing the abuser. But if the abused person were to, for example, wait until the abuser was asleep and set him on fire, then I can't justify it. However, I'm likely to go light on them because of their situations.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2007-12-12T16:04:13-06:00

ID

116037

Comment

I don't know. As a abuse survivor, I never once thought about killing him. I wonder how far he would have had to push me to activate that trigger. That trigger would be different for everyone: how could one justify it for physical abuse and not for verbal? How could a line be drawn there, if the line was needed at all?

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2007-12-12T16:26:39-06:00

ID

116038

Comment

Golden eagle, Agreed 100%. Self-defense from immediate abuse is one thing. Lying in wait for the abuser, I don't condone it at all, but I certainly can understand the murderous sentiment behind it.

Author

Philip

Date

2007-12-12T17:56:20-06:00

ID

116039

Comment

I agree Goden and Philip about the lying in wait, but if the proven abuse is bad enough I still might pardon or forgive her. Clearing the earth of some kinds of trash is a good thing.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-12-13T09:52:03-06:00

ID

116040

Comment

Clearing the earth of some kinds of trash is a good thing. Uh-huh. Who is deciding what is trash and what is treasure?

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-12-13T15:10:55-06:00

ID

116041

Comment

Ray, here's your Ike Turner link.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-12-13T15:57:29-06:00