Ellington

The picture of how this city (and state?) treats sex with minors is very disturbing to me. Witness this article today about the police officers who allegedly had sex with the 15-year-old who was killed. Attorney Robert Clark says this about his client, police officer Maurice Clark, who is resigning after being accused of having sex with the child:

"You have a murder suspect that was just arrested, then you're asking who had sex with the girl," Smith said. "She's dead. She's deceased. How is that going to help with the homicide investigation? It just looks really bad. If nothing comes out of it, how does it help the Police Department?" Sandifer's body was found in Presidential Hills Park on Flag Chapel Road. Hinds County Coroner Sharon Grisham-Stewart said the teen died of a blunt-force trauma to the head.

How is that going to help??? Do these adults not realize that you cannot have sex with children and get your wrist slapped???

This kind of reminds me of the whole Juvenile Detention Center scandal in the early 1990s when guards were accused of having sex with young teen inmates — and District Attorney Ed Peters would not bring the case before a grand jury because he said the children "consented." And then the head of the Juvenile Detention Center — now Councilman Frank Bluntson — resigned with an agreement that he would not be prosecuted for problems there, and then went to work for the district attorney!

Do we have a problem with not taking rape of children seriously in these parts? Do our laws need to be strengthened? Let's have a community conversation about this, people.

Previous Comments

ID

104410

Comment

If the pay wasn't what it is and i wouldn't have to drive a hoopty i would be a cop. They could use some new faces, no disrespect sort of, but some people who want to be cops are on the same physchological level as the ones who want to be a ranger for the sheer fact of being able to snap someones head in one move. Is there a test for applicants or are we in a hire everyone who applies wait until they mess up stage? Before I get flamed let me say that i do not have that feeling towards all cops, only the ones who are bad because a lot of them are bad and should be in a new profession. At the same time some are the finest around. Let us not let a few bad apples spoil the identity of an entire population.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-01-27T13:11:16-06:00

ID

104411

Comment

Well, I think I would just like it if the JPD could stop touching our children. They seem to have a problem with that. A well documented and not prosecuted problem.

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-01-27T13:59:36-06:00

ID

104412

Comment

What is starting to really concern me is that we may have a culture here that, somehow, thinks its OK if a child consents. How many cases like this have we turned our backs on historically? And are most of them directly toward powerless children in difficult family situations?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T14:06:54-06:00

ID

104413

Comment

those in need seek security wherever they can find it, bottles, drugs, sex? I don't know first hand but some people look for a way out wherever they can find it. I am curious why no one has said it was the parents responsibility in the first place. I know they have a loss but she apparently had a history of staying and leaving at an early age something was not right way before she was killed. This is perfect PR chance for frank he knows if that child would have been in school then she would not have resorted to such measures. I almost sort of agree with him, someone is accountable, the cops should have never had the thought cross their mind in the first place, secondly she should never have been in that situation.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-01-27T14:16:29-06:00

ID

104414

Comment

Superstar-You're way off base there. With both her behavior and what could have been done to alleviate that situation. The fact remains that her parents had a filed petition at the courthouse classifying her as a runaway. Law says that if a police officer then sees that runaway, they must be picked up. This police officer knew of her runaway status for a very long time, and never brought her to the detention center or attempted to notify her parents. Minus the innappropriate relationship, him actually doing his job could have saved this girl's life.

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-01-27T14:25:15-06:00

ID

104415

Comment

Yeah, can we put aside the damn blame-the-parents mantra for a moment??? I can absolutely agree that we need to work to help parents who have problems of whatever sort -- but that has not a damn thing to do with whether grown men are raping children -- and what should be done about THAT. As I heard Marian Wright Edelman say earlier this week in Jackson: "Children don't choose their parents." And it's not only children with "good" parents who should be protected from predators, or those who enable them, no matter what position of power they're in.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T14:34:53-06:00

ID

104416

Comment

I agree with that ali totally and this is definitely your area of expertise but I'm jsut saying somethign went wrong for her to want to leave her parents. The officers definitely should have done their job and no doubt would have made things better for everyone if they would have just followed protocol. I'm asking a question that noone here can answer and there is no need for more speculation so forget the parent comment. Bottom line some dirty cops did a crap thing and in taking advantage of someone less fortunate the girl was killed. Have there been any connections between her death and prostitution? I am still speculating but just trying to tie the runaway characteristics with somethng that would lead to her having sex/beign raped by a cop. Were the cops and tocie both having sex with her? There is a lot of info that isn't released and this thing is starting to smell.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-01-27T14:37:34-06:00

ID

104417

Comment

Superstar:Is there a test for applicants or are we in a hire everyone who applies wait until they mess up stage? Philip: I believe there are some already, though I don't know what the name of it is. My hunch is that it's similar to the PCL-R Psychopathy Checklist developed by Dr. Robert Hare. Superstar:Before I get flamed let me say that i do not have that feeling towards all cops, only the ones who are bad because a lot of them are bad and should be in a new profession. At the same time some are the finest around. Let us not let a few bad apples spoil the identity of an entire population. Philip: Right you are! There are bad people in every profession. In fact, the same Dr. Hare has teamed up with Dr. Paul Babiak to conjure the B-Scan, a psychopathy checklist specializing in spotting Corporate Psychopaths (like Bernie Ebbers and Ken Lay). In fact, the first article linked below specualtes that the only thing separating many corporate psychopaths from your run of the mill violent criminal is that, because the former typically grew up in higher income households, they are less inclined toward violent behavior BUT they still have the same conning-and-manipluation skills as your average garden variety criminal. Is Your Boss a Psychopath An Article I've already linked several times from the Australian ABC. The MOST BOOKMARKABLE page of the decade - trust me!Psychopaths in Suits. This in-depth description of corporate psychopaths is scarily reminscent of many "life of the party" people in general - even at the high school level. Speaking of which, for ANYONE out there who is dealing with a boss from hell (or anyone in your life from hell).Bully OnLine from Tim Field. A prominent British Expert on bullying.

Author

Philip

Date

2006-01-27T14:42:21-06:00

ID

104418

Comment

I'll agree with you there, Superstar. I'm curious about the prostitution angle myself -- but not to indict the child. To know why the hell these people in positions of power were involved in prostitution. It stinks bad.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T14:42:35-06:00

ID

104419

Comment

BASIC psychopath quick-quiz: If you think your boss is a psychopath sounds like someone you know, grab and pen and try this quick quiz. Answer Yes or No to the following ten questions: 1.Does your boss or workmate come across as smooth, polished and charming? 2.Do they turn most conversations around to a discussion about them? 3.Do they discredit or put others down in order to build up their own image and reputation? 4.Can they lie with a straight face to their co-workers, customers, or business associates? 5.Do they consider people they’ve outsmarted or manipulated as dumb or stupid? 6.Are they opportunistic, ruthless, hating to lose and playing to win? 7.Do they come across as cold and calculating? 8.Do they sometimes act in an unethical or dishonest manner? 9.Have they created a power network in the organisation, then used it for personal gain? 10.Do they show no regret for making decisions that negatively affect the company, shareholders, or employees? Ian Walker: If you scored at least six out of ten, there’s a good chance you’ve already met what’s known as an industrial or ‘corporate psychopath’. For most of us, the word itself seems loaded, and a bit shocking to use for someone who might be in the next cubicle at work. But, psychopath, we’re assured, is the correct term for these people. Sorry for this tangent into psychopathy when the topic is actually police and guards sexually abusing people, especially children. But I think this is still highly relevant to the topic of the types of cops (or anyone in general) who would committ henious acts.

Author

Philip

Date

2006-01-27T14:50:51-06:00

ID

104420

Comment

Are there any traits of paedophilia that are independent of psychopathy? I realize that paedophiles tend to have little, if any, remorse for the pain they caused their victions - but realize that these may be two separate mental disorders.

Author

Philip

Date

2006-01-27T14:53:39-06:00

ID

104421

Comment

Hey, you're above my pay grade here -- although I have done research on these issues. I think I'll let Ali chime in on this. Interesting posts, though, Philip.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T14:58:03-06:00

ID

104422

Comment

A quick search found this list of typical traits: PEDOPHILE OFFENDERS -generally, overadequate individuals -high self esteem, extroverted -often self-insightful, articulate -often from middle class, stable home -rationalization of facts & responsibility -alcoholism not usually present, but is used as a seductive tool to loosen up inhibitions of victims -if married and not living with mother or grandmother (more frequent), the marriage is a sham & everyone knows it -often high intelligence/college educated -sexual history may include homosexuality, other deviant acts -molests occur in response to fantasy-driven cycle; e.g., babysitters, pornography (compulsion) -makes victim feel like a child -has very clear and concrete ideas about what is appropriate for each age group _____ BTW, it's fine to have this discussion in a general way -- it's important -- but, please, no one get into any specific allegations of individuals here. Thanks.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T15:04:17-06:00

ID

104423

Comment

Phillip, they share characteristics in that most have narcissistic traits and are able to somewhat dissociate or unable to connect with other people. People molest for a variety of reasons, though. Many acting out their own abusive childhoods. So, none of it is really completely conclusive. The two diagnosis are alike in that they are pretty much a "terminal" mental illness. Meaning you don't really 'recover' from either. These are the cases where people are in psychoanalysis for YEARS and YEARS and there is no real improvement to their behavior. I'm not going to say you "can't". But the diagnosis of a Personality Disorder, just like pedophilia, is pretty much a life long diagnosis with little hope for complete recovery. People learn to cope and live with these....but they never really "recover". But, there is a slight difference between a pedophile and a child molesters. Pedophiles being the "sicker" of the two, usually.

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-01-27T15:35:40-06:00

ID

104424

Comment

Yikes! No names. Generally speaking, aren’t many of these traits seen in politicians?

Author

Rex

Date

2006-01-27T15:36:30-06:00

ID

104425

Comment

Um, yes. :) It is generally noted that politicians and entertainers have a higher incidence of personality disorders than the "normal" populations. Writers too. ;) (if I'm gonna tell it, might as well tell the whole truth)

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-01-27T15:55:08-06:00

ID

104426

Comment

Hey, I believe it. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T15:56:29-06:00

ID

104427

Comment

I consider police officers or anyone else who uses their position of power or the color of law to get sex they can't otherwise get consent for as rapists, predators and abusers. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but what truly reasonable, decent and sane man would have sex with a child that he knows need everything but sex from somebody who doesn't love or care for her. Besides, I'd like to know, or maybe I don't, what the hell a 15 or 16 year old girl can do for you sexually or otherwise that a grown woman can't do? Such a man who would have sex with a child is likely knowingly inadequate in many ways and probably couldn't even handle a real women. I couldn't be a judge in cases where the evidence clearly showed the officers took advantage of the child. The Eight Amendment wouldn't mean nothing. All of my punishment would initially be cruel and unusual. I have represented and interrogated more police officers than I can remember. In some I found some of the finest human beings walking the earth. On many occasions I found some of the biggest cowards and most corrupt beings walking the earth. I can see somebody her age or a non-adult wanting to sleep with her if they thought they could get away with it. I say this because I have talked to many young males about making good decisions and I have found only a few who will look beyond the moment before them. Many males are taught and firmly believe that it's their male duty to get all the sex they can, however you can. I even had a preacher to tell me to get all I could as often as I could (as if it was running out).

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-01-27T16:18:26-06:00

ID

104428

Comment

I have read some great statements that all of you have made. The bottom line to me is....the letter of the law...having sex with a minor, not performing duties toward the runaway (since she will just run away again mentality), aware and participating in prostitution...not only not enforcing the law, but also participating in breaking the law. Also, were others involved? Canine

Author

canineterrier

Date

2006-01-27T16:34:25-06:00

ID

104429

Comment

I should add that we male fathers in particular and males in general need to do a better job of teaching our boys to respect women and themselves. When you abuse a woman you're not triumphant in some special manner; you're an abuser that has dishonored your mother, siters, aunts, father, uncles and brothers. I don't care whether the women is dysfunctional too. It's not all about the women, it's about you too. Would you want someone to do the same thing to you mother, sisters, aunts or neices. I think not.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-01-27T17:01:49-06:00

ID

104430

Comment

Yeah, that "boys will be boys" bullsh!t hurts men as much as women.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T17:04:51-06:00

ID

104431

Comment

... not to mention male victims ...

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-27T17:10:21-06:00

ID

104432

Comment

You're correct. My own son is one of the biggest fools I've ever known. He's now 29 and wouldn't dare tell me about any of the things he's done to women. Some of them have though. Anytime, he brings a woman by the house I wonder what's wrong with her. I ask myself why she doesn't know he's not worth a crap. I shouldn't tell any of his business but I'll tell this little bit. He called me crying one time because he messed around and fell in love with a stripper. How many of us are dumb enough to do that. I told him to respect her bcause she's a human being just like the rest of us. He was crying the blues becuse she was staying out all night while he kept her children. He was wondering if she was messing around on him. I said to myself "son let's go get blood tests so I can find out if you're really my child. What the ___ do you think she's doing by staying out all night." Too often these kinds of people spend all of their young lives abusing people and getting abused. My child who didn't grow up with me certainly didn't learn his abusive behavior from me but he nevertheless learned it somewhere.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-01-27T17:26:35-06:00

ID

104433

Comment

thanks a lot dad

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2006-01-27T17:32:06-06:00

ID

104434

Comment

He has grown some however. He dates women of all hues and color now despite telling me at 15 years of age the only girls he liked were light-skinned and dumb. He didn't have to explain the last part of the comment. I knew he was looking for similarity. Superstar, you're not my son. He couldn't write what you write.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-01-27T17:37:33-06:00

ID

104435

Comment

I have a huge problem with the actions of these police officers. I sincerely believe that they have known for a long time of this girl's status (runaway). I think that it takes the sickest, vilest, most wretched individual to be intimate with a child. It dosen't matter that this child had problems. As a police officer and more importantly as a human being, these individuals had a moral obligation to return this child to her parents. I hope that they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law with light speed. What are the children of this city thinking of the police department now? Do the children make the distinction between good cops and bad cops? Should they even have to wonder about this? These men swore an oath to serve and protect, not to use and abuse. As a parent my heart goes out to her parents. Mayby something different should have been done but it dosent mean much now because they will never get another chance. It really does make it harder for the good police to do their job now because they have to go out and re-prove themselves all over again.

Author

lance

Date

2006-01-27T17:40:36-06:00

ID

104436

Comment

This is a good thread, but we're all preaching to the choir. Everyone in this discussion agrees that a police officer having sex with a 15-year-old girl is wrong and needs to be prosecuted under statutory rape laws. The people who don't agree with us aren't reading this web site. Random stuff: - I'm concerned that the definition of paedophilia given above seems to connect it to closeted gay men when the sexual history of most paedophiles, vis-a-vis other adults, is heterosexual. I'm also concerned about the fact that it refers to homosexuality as "deviant behavior." - Paedophilia is technically sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children, not sexually developed teenagers. Statutory rape is certainly predatory behavior, but if there's a psychosexual etiology to it, I imagine it would be comparable to the etiology of other forms of rape. - According to Mississippi Code 97-3-65(2), "Neither the victim's consent nor the victim's lack of chastity is a defense to a charge of statutory rape." So it doesn't matter if she said yes, and it doesn't matter if she's a prostitute. If he had sex with her, it's rape. Period. - If a police officer had sexual intercourse with a 15-year-old girl and she later turned up dead, I would think that this would be very relevant to the murder investigation precisely because it "looks really bad." - On the other hand, statutory rape charges don't generally stick without the victim's testimony. If the victim is deceased and there is no biological evidence, there's not really a point to going to trial. Hearsay evidence is inadmissible. - On the other other hand, the victim's family may still be able to sue the officer for huge amounts of money--as hearsay standards in civil cases are much looser, and it is not necessary to exceed the reasonable doubt standard. If it becomes clear that he did have sex with the child, I hope a local high-powered attorney takes the case on a commission basis and sends the schmuck straight into bankruptcy. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-01-27T20:37:11-06:00

ID

104437

Comment

You're right Tom. The only issue now is what is going to happen to those former officers. To hide behind the color of the badge was in itself a shame and scandal. A clear message needs to be sent anytime an officer abuses his/her authority. I see this as clear cut abuse because they had the power to give this girl and her parents another chance. We fail our youth when something like this happens. Some kids are already on the edge, and when they hear of something like this, it will be even harder to turn them around. I hope that those former officers get to feel the depth of the harm that they have caused to everyone.

Author

lance

Date

2006-01-27T21:07:23-06:00

ID

104438

Comment

The article indicates that the attorney is Robert Smith. The introduction indicates that the attorney is Robert Clark. Attorney Robert Clark is a partner in the Clark Law Firm in Lexington, Mississippi (another partner being Rep. Bryant Clark of District 47). Is it Mr. Clark or Mr. Smith who is the attorney?

Author

danfling

Date

2006-01-29T15:07:48-06:00

ID

104439

Comment

You're right. My bad. I typed it wrong; will go back and change it. Good catch.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-29T15:48:59-06:00

ID

104440

Comment

This young lady’s death is both disturbing and saddening. Perhaps of her death some good will result, as in shining a much needed light on the corrupt, inept, and downright lazy individuals that work under the guise of serving and protecting this city. Also it was very disheartening to hear neighbors of the accused on a local newscast speaking very nonchalantly about the victim.

Author

K RHODES

Date

2006-01-30T23:47:32-06:00

ID

104441

Comment

Agnew's CL column regarding this subject. But would someone please tell me: What, or whom, was Tawana running from? She was 15, not particularly an age where the weight of the world should have been on her shoulders. You go to school. You try your best. You come home. That's your life when you're 15. Not for Tawana. Aw, Mr. Agnew, did we burst your "perfect world" bubble? I say this because he just doesn't seem to "get it". How many Tawana's there are in Jackson. How many children actually DO live with the weight of the world on their shoulders. This part asks some relevent questions, but not the good ones. Tawana's case continues to raise more troubling questions than answers. If we can launch worthwhile searches for a child missing in Aruba, surely we can do the same at home. Shame on society. Shame on society for treating Tawana like just another kid from the 'hood who disappeared. Where were the missing persons fliers? Where was the police follow-up when she would make the occasional call home to her mother? Where were the social organizations? Where were family members? Have we become so desensitized to violence and our broken social structure that Tawana's disappearance didn't matter? And what of the police officers accused in this case? Did they know the kid? If so, can we really say that Tawana was ever really missing? At this point, Tawana's story is as much about how society failed this child as it is about her death. I bolded the part that seems important to me. Because, to me, I'm not quite sure that "society" failed Tawana. Although, I am quite sure that two police officers did. I really don't think there is any question about whether or not those police officers knew this youth. Where is the column demanding that the police officers be held accountable in a court of law for their actions? That is the column that I want to see. Not one waxing poetic about the "lost children of our society". Its situations like this that makes you shut up and put up. Give me a demand for prosecution. We fail Tawana NOW for not prosecuting for both her DEATH and for the actions done unto her by people in her life we told her to trust. One more sentence I want to address Have we become so desensitized to violence and our broken social structure that Tawana's disappearance didn't matter? I think he should answer that by answering the question would he run a story about a missing fifteen-year-old African American teenager that lived in the 'hood (as he so wonderfully put it)? Or would he wait and run a story about a missing, dead, and raped fifteen-year-old African American teenage girl whose body was found in a ditch? Because its a lot easier to clean up your messes after they've happened. Isn't it?

Author

Lori G

Date

2006-01-31T09:05:59-06:00

ID

104442

Comment

Mr. Agnew goes to church with me and sings in the church choir. Similarly, he wrote an article after the Edgar Ray Killen's trial asking whether people would now leave us along and stop bad mouthing us. He posed numerous other questions and provided no answers. I emailed him telling him he should be ashamed of himself for posing so many thoughtless questions and no answers. He emailed me back urging me to introduce myself to him the next time I saw him at church. I haven't done it yet. I'm worried I might feel tempted to give him a kind slap on the cheek. Good job Ali. I surely hope he reads what you wrote. I don't understand the type of brother Mr. Agnew is. I'm puzzled by him.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-01-31T09:50:27-06:00

ID

104443

Comment

Thank you, Ali and Ray. Ali, you nailed exactly what I was feeling when I read this useless—and as Todd likes to say, "fact-free"—column that does nothing but look for someone to blame. Mr. Agnew's columns get worse every single time he writes one -- and that's saying something, considering how bad they've been of late. He seems to live in a bubble; how did he end up in this position in a majority-black city with severe problems and nasty racial politics left over from Jim Crow and white-flight days (or the severe white-flight days)? I remember when he took the job, he wrote a meaningless and flippant column about how we don't need to talk about race anymore. All that's in the past, blah, blah. I knew then we were in for trouble.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-31T12:27:17-06:00

ID

104444

Comment

BTW, this column is REALLY precious when you consider how great a job the Ledge has done in recent years actually covering the problems of young people in this city—including the idea among many powerful that needy kids are there for them to use as toys, and people will look the other way. I still can't get over reading in the Ledger that D.A. Peters didn't want to bring a grand jury against those guards at the Youth Detention Center because the under-age girls in the center they had sex with "CONSENTED." Or that Mr. Bluntson, who was in charge there during all that mess, made a deal not to be prosecuted and then went to work for Mr. Peters. But nary a word about that "past" stuff during the campaign this year from Mr. Agnew's paper. WHERE THE HELL HAS THE CLARION-LEDGER BEEN? And now Mr. Agnew has the nerve to handwring over what happened to this kid "from the 'hood." Mr. A, there are a good number of things she might have been "running from."

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-01-31T12:33:14-06:00

ID

104445

Comment

If people only knew....

Author

MiSsAmerAKA

Date

2007-03-29T20:44:08-06:00

ID

104446

Comment

I have a question for all fellas...Have you ever been involved with a girl only to find out everything or most of it was a LIE?? IE: her name, her age, everything a LIE!

Author

MiSsAmerAKA

Date

2007-03-29T20:52:03-06:00

ID

104447

Comment

No. Never. Not once!

Author

Larry

Date

2007-03-29T21:15:52-06:00