Ellington

My hat is off to Cyrus Webb and ShadowPlay Entertainment for raising issues affecting the hip-hop nation recently. His Free2Flow Summit last week was an attempt to enlighten the public at large about the rap world and a chance for some area kids to learn about the "business of music." I was fortunate enough to be one of the panelists, and more fortunate to engage in some in-depth discussions with a few very intelligent ladies and gentlemen.

Unfortunately, the forums weren't as well-attended as I'd hoped they would be, partially because the event had to be moved at the last minute—no fault of Cyrus'. Thus, there is another addition to my you-know-what list. This time the perpetrator is the Greater Mount Calvary Family Life Center.

The summit was planned over a month ago. I'm sure Cyrus put in many painstaking days and nights setting things up. However, after viewing a list of topics to be touched on at the forum in The Clarion-Ledger, the church decided to call with concerns only two days prior to the event. Seems they had a problem with a scheduled discussion on the commercialization of the "N" word in their building. They even suggested that Cyrus cancel the morning session. Tsk, tsk! Thank God he stood his ground!

I'm appalled that the church would act so ignorant. Mind you, I'm fully aware that they are well within their rights to confirm or cancel any event, but c'mon. Traditionally, the church was seen as the cornerstone of the community—the beacon that all wayward folk could look to for guidance. Lately, however, the church has gotten painfully out of step with reality. Instead of looking like a maverick, it reduces itself to that same "old fogey" category that most anti-hip-hoppers have fallen into. Their apprehension has given even more power to that same "N" word they try so hard to avoid. If they prevent it from being uttered in their church, does that mean the word and the ongoing controversy surrounding it no longer exist? What message is the church sending the younger members of the congregation when it shies away from any issue they face every day? This is not so much about the "N" word as it is about censorship: the more we run from this "word," the more power it gains. The more we treat it like profanity, the sexier it looks.

In the '60s, churches were the refuge of civil-rights leaders across the South. Church was the meeting place of freedom fighters. Now the church has fallen victim to political correctness. The reason they prefer not to have a discussion of the "N" word in the church is the reason they should have it in the first place.

In the end, a lot of registered attendees were confused, or not informed of the move at all. Consequently, a potentially successful event failed to reach projections. Let's not stop here, though. These topics still need to be visited by the local intelligentsia. To Cyrus, I say regroup, reload and keep firing away. You're one of the few who have the foresight to bring these issues to light. To Greater Mount Calvary, a big wave of the finger.

And that's the truth ... sho-nuff

Previous Comments

ID

72079

Comment

Thanks for that encouragement, Kamikaze. You know something that I don't understand is that later the VERY SAME DAY at what was supposed to be a very dignified event, Tougaloo College's Two Rivers Gala the "N" word was used, causing some to get up and walk out: Read Jamesetta Walker's first-hand account at this link: http://clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060416/COL0206/604160323 Though I don't know how all those at the church felt, it was clearly seen by some that this was one topic that should be discussed elsewhere.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-19T17:09:04-06:00

ID

72080

Comment

Thanks for your comments, Kamikaze. I also enjoyed listening to you at the forum. You're very...verbal. :-) C.A., I read the article, and it said that eight white people walked out. I think Ms. Dupre scared them a little.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-19T17:40:32-06:00

ID

72081

Comment

L.W., the thing that I find offensive about the gala is that you don't expect to attend an event like that and get offended. Honestly, I feel as though anytime people have paid good money ($100 a person, you might recall), that they don't expect for someone who is entertainment for the organization you are coming to support to use language that could be hurtful. As much as I believe we have excelled in showing compassion and understanding to all groups, things like this happen and you wonder if we are not headed in the wrong direction.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-19T17:49:48-06:00

ID

72082

Comment

Yes, it was a little on the raw side, and you wouldn't expect to hear that at an event when you're trying to RAISE MONEY. I wonder if those people will return next year or just mail a check, if they even want to do that. On the other hand, I've been in awkward situations before, and I usually just suck it up and remember my main reason for being whatever it is I am at. Ms. Dupre is an entertainer and does not speak for Tougaloo. Too bad they couldn't realize that, stay there and just take a sigh of relief after she left the stage.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-19T18:42:43-06:00

ID

72083

Comment

L.W., it might seem strange for me to say this, but I think too many times we excuse Blacks for doing what Ms. Dupre. Okay, before I go on let me say that if it was advertised as an event where she was a headliner, then it would be a little different. Take the Smiley show that was the same weekend as Tyler Perry. People know what to expect with Dupre and Smiley, so they can make a decision as to whether they want to be a part of that performance. But when you have a fundraiser for an organization like Tougaloo, then you have to keep in mind that blacks are not the only ones that support such colleges. The purpose of fundraisers is to raise money. Why would you do something that could endanger those fundraising efforts? Like I mentioned at the summit, I don't use the "N" word, and the stance I have taken keeps situation like the gala from happening. Just like we talked about young white kids using it who feel as though it is okay. It makes some people uncomfortable. I'm not saying you don't have freedom of speech to say what you want to, but I do feel as though what you say in the public has to be responsible.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-19T19:19:06-06:00

ID

72084

Comment

Like I mentioned at the summit, I don't use the "N" word, and the stance I have taken keeps situation like the gala from happening. Just like we talked about young white kids using it who feel as though it is okay. It makes some people uncomfortable. I'm not saying you don't have freedom of speech to say what you want to, but I do feel as though what you say in the public has to be responsible. I agree. Lots of times, blacks feel they can say whatever they want when they make up the majority of the audience. Of course, what one says could drive your financial blessings right out the door - or window if it was extra bad.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-19T23:02:15-06:00

ID

72085

Comment

Perhaps we could open up the discussion a bit to focus on the use of the infamous "N" word. First, I should say that I am white male, so I don't use the word, except every once in a while when I am quoting hip-hop lyrics. I also understand and totally accept the idea that it's different for African-Americans to use the word than it is for me, just as it is different for homosexuals to use the "F" word than it is for me. White people, who are the biggest bunch of whiners any time something is "unfair" for them, only pretend not to get the difference, IMHO. Having said that, there is no question in my mind that the use of the "N" word by hip-hop performers, among others, has stripped the word of some of its awful aura. Such that young white people do imitate use of the word, even though they have no right to it. I do not presume to tell black people what they can say, but to what extent is this a problem? There's always a duality to these cultural questions, such that even as hip-hop performers dress up in black face, to some extent, when they dramatize the "ghetto" life, they also feed white racism, as well as providing the money-obsessed escapism many white kids crave as much as black kids. This also brings to mind the blowout between Spike Lee and Quentin Tarantino over use of the "N" word. Obviously, Spike would have an easier time convincing arrogant Tarantino if the word were not in such wide use. That doesn't change the fact that Tarantino is wrong to use it. He cannot argue that this is just the world his characters inhabit. Like nearly everyone, I admired Pulp Fiction when it came out, but it has not aged well. I think of that gratuitous scene, when Tarantino's character says: "Is there a sign on my lawn saying 'Dead N*** Storage?" Apart from it being clunky dialogue, it's just plain ugly, and Tarantino looks like a white kid who delights in being naughty by using the word, which is what he really is. Anyway, comments?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2006-04-21T12:35:51-06:00

ID

72086

Comment

Hello to everyone that responded. I am one of those intelligent ladies that attended the summit. (Thanks Kamikaze!) I really enjoyed the time spent discussing the controversial topic; "The use of the "N" word." I'm not going to get into my feelings about the issue, because I'm sure someone is going to probably disagree with me. I don't want to be apart of a HEATED debate. I've learned that in life everyone is going to have their opinions, that of which, we are all entitled to. We can discuss this subject until we're blue in the face! I personally believe that the "N" shouldn't be used at all, I'm not going to even call it a word. "Why can't we all just get along?" That's the issue that I'm pushing right now. We could get so much more done if we embraced each others differences and stopped putting so many labels on things. Someone is probably going to say that I'm being unrealistic. But, I would have to disagree. We as a people have the POWER to make anything happen if we truly desire it. I challenge you out there to discuss something a bit different. Let's chat about how we can work together as people to create a world that we can be proud to have our children live in. Thanks and have a nice day!

Author

blaque butterfly

Date

2006-04-21T13:59:33-06:00

ID

72087

Comment

Hey, blaque butterfly...nice to hear from you! I never liked the word and wish everyone's brains could get zapped so that no one could say it, but that's a little extreme. :-) However, I understand what people are trying to do by attempting to put a spin on the word in order to dehumanize it. There are a lot of words out there that are being done that way. The other N word, nappy, is going through a similar transition. Linda "Mosetta" Jones, the founder of A Nappy Hair Affair, wrote a book called Nappyisms, which is incredibly funny. The word fat seems to be going through the same thing since you hear more about fat acceptance. There are others, but I can't think of them right now.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-21T18:02:46-06:00

ID

72088

Comment

Ms. Dupre is a very funny lady. I applaud her for not stopping her show to acknowledge the sensitive people who walked out because she used a word that their ancestors created hundreds of years ago. she should've cracked on them as they left. Katt Williams would've done it..lol.. She did what any other red-blooded Black person with a backbone did and that's address a word that most are scared to address or even talk about, and she did it with class through her comedic abilities. Bravo! Guilt has a way of making one's face turn red, and given all the laughter in the room no one could tell until the guilty decided to get up and walk out. Shame on those people who left. they missed out on a great comedian.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-24T10:57:30-06:00

ID

72089

Comment

She did what any other red-blooded Black person with a backbone did and that's address a word that most are scared to address or even talk about, and she did it with class through her comedic abilities. Bravo! I forgot to add "In the heart of hate country at that...Mississippi" such a brave and talented woman, Ms. Dupre.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-24T10:59:24-06:00

ID

72090

Comment

Thanks, JSU, for sharing that. I didn't think of it that way.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-24T11:16:29-06:00

ID

72091

Comment

Anyone know if the free2flow summit is something that happens each year, or was this the first time?

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-24T13:16:17-06:00

ID

72092

Comment

Jan2006, thanks for your interest in the Free2Flow Summit. Please continue to visit www.free2flow.com to keep abreast of its activities that will be held later this year.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-24T15:14:43-06:00

ID

72093

Comment

I was speaking with Joyce Brewer of 16 WAPT today about the Ms. Dupree performance, and I agree that she shouldn't apologize. She is a performer, and she was doing what she always done. IN MY OPINION, it is Tougaloo College and the sponsors of the event that should at least acknowledge that some were offended by her performance. This is a sad double-standard, and I think that we need to really think about this. To me, this is no better than the Trent Lott/ Strom Thurman remarks. These people paid their $100 to attend the event and support the college. They came for a good time, not to be offended. It is sad that we will look at this as "our right" to say this and that. What about the rights of others? Isn't Tougaloo College still relying on the donations of people LIKE THE ONES WHO WALKED OUT? Dont' they won't these people to continue to support them as they strive to improve and excel? Of course. The right thing to do IN MY OPINION (I'm sure that some reading this will forget that I have repeatedly said this) is to release a statement saying that they are sorry if anyone was offended by the remarks made during the performance, and that they don't reflect the school or what the school stands for. What is the harm in that? You have people who have SAID all they want is for it to be recognized. If something is not done about this from the school and sponsors, I know for a fact that this not going away and will be remembered when plans are made for next year.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-24T15:27:39-06:00

ID

72094

Comment

Last I checked Tougaloo was a black college, and you are intitled to your opinion. but here's where reality should set in for you and others who have your opinion in lock-step....the N word is not going anywhere until we can either do away with it(which will never happen) or learn to live with it(which is happening) IN MY OPINION, Ms.Dupre has learned to live with it and laugh at it at the same time because it's such a silly word to begin with. She has learned to strip the word of it's sting of racism and mock it's use to no end...BRILLIANT! And just for kicks my friend named his gigantic 4 year old rottweiler "My N.igga" You must understand that the N word rests on the tongues of white people (old and young) like a pit viper ready to strike and it doesn't take much for it to come out. Regardless if you have white friends or note. just get them upset enough at youand it'll happen, especially in Mississippi. Trent Lott proves this everytime he talks. He's itching to say it. Those who walked out were probably muttering the word on their way out for all we know. So taking the word out of the english language/dictionary now is like telling all the Pilgrims to leave tomorrow. it just won't happen in your lifetime or mine. How much support do you think you can you get for bannishing the N word when most Mississippians didn't even vote against that racist flag waving over our heads? my grandma always told me "pick your battles and let the rest rot"

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-24T16:19:35-06:00

ID

72095

Comment

Point proven.There are peeps out there who really enjoy controversy. No one has taken me up on my challenge yet. We tend to gravitate toward negativity and I refuse to run my blood pressure up in HEATED debates(smiling) I have always believed that when a person uses words to hurt or degrade another, this only shows their ignorance. The "N" has no power in my life. I refuse to give it that. Name calling is for kids when the "N" is used to hurt others. When used by us, why not say, "What's up my brother" rather than, "What's up my "N" But, I guess that wouldn'ty be as exciting? But, then again grown folks can do what they want to do. I just don't do it. Thanks

Author

blaque butterfly

Date

2006-04-24T16:48:46-06:00

ID

72096

Comment

FYI: Just wanted you all to know that I am waiting on a response back from Ms. Edwina Hamby (Vice President for Institutional Advancement) at Tougaloo College. I emailed her earlier today to give her the link to this discussion. I am hoping she will join us in discussing this. It is obvious that this is a subject which is good to discuss, and I hope we glean an appreciation for other's opinions int he process. JSU, I respect your right to feel as strongly as you do, and there are others who share your beliefs. And yes, you're right: Tougaloo College is STILL a black college, a place for "higher education and achievement". I think that is part of my problem with this going unadressed.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-24T16:49:49-06:00

ID

72097

Comment

Blaque Butterfly, very well put. However, I do disagree with you on one thing: we are discussing your challenge. You want us to talk about how we can make this a better place for those coming after us. The way I feel we do that is by addressing these issues, and understand why we do some of the things we do. As I have told you before, I don't say the word, because I just didn't come up with that word around me. And I grew up in Brandon, MS--- going to school with those who are different from me in so many ways--- and we didn't have problems with race being the problem for everything. You said that we have power, and I agree. But I think that accepting things just because others have is willfully giving that power up. I don't judge anyone who is a part of this discussion, but think about how we are so quick to accept phrases and words as "ours"--- yet we want address the problems we are making with ourselves with social issues, education, etc.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-24T16:55:59-06:00

ID

72098

Comment

What if the table was turned and it was a caucasion comedian entertainer that was on stage and made the same joke at Tougaloo College? Do you all think that it would be an issue? Do you all think that TC would want an apology for the use of the N word by the caucasion race? I do, and the reason is because of the mentality that it is okay for African Amercans to say it and no one else. I can't even lie, I use the word, yet I am aware of when I should and shouldn't use it, for the fact of not wanting to offend anyone, because I don't want anyone to offend me. (I'm not saying that makes the use of the N word right) So I say, keep talking about it, because JSU you are right, the word is not going to be banned, and why should it? If that's the case I have a whole list of words that should be banned (i.e. there b*tch, h*onky, chinck, I could go on and on) I agree with Kamikazee that the church was somewhat wrong for backing out at the last minute just because the N word was on the list as a topic to be discussed. I think that action tells children that the word is taboo and shouldn't even be discussed, which in turn makes children want to use the word even more. Why not openly address the issue in an adult like manner, and I think that is what webb was trying to do. Just bring awareness to all people. Maybe they thought if they allowed the use of the N word for discussion they would be advocating the word. I also agree with c a webb and LW that TC (not Ms. Dupree) should make an apology to those that were offended because they sponsored the event and it is their responsibility, and why lose out on donations for the next school year for offending a few people. Not apologizing is not worth losing donations and support of some people for a word that teachers don't even let students use in class, so we know that the N word is not something that TC advocates. We do have the power to change things, and it has to start somewhere. And talking about it is the place, getting people to be comfortable with the history of the word to discuss feelings and opinoins: this is where it starts. I think this is a really good discussion and I really do respect all thoughts and opinoins because they all contribute to learning about different ways of looking at things. Just remember though folks (if you do or don't have a problem with the N word) it's not about what people call you, it's about what you answer to.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-25T09:33:33-06:00

ID

72099

Comment

Jan2006, you're right that all opinions have to be respected. I just think that we have to "keep it real." Blacks were not called N!ggas before---- so how are we taking that word back? Blacks were called N!ggers. N!ggers, not n!ggas. If anything, N!ggas is slang. I think that is where the decussion needs to begin. Blacks were Negros that were called N!ggers to degrade and humilate them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_(word) Blacks began calling each other N!ggas, not whites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger_(word)#.22Nigger.22_versus_.22nigga.22:_the_new_revisionism The whole purpose of the summit was to understand why some blacks have accepted the word, in the word N!GGA in whatever setting, and others haven't. I also wanted to talk about why it was seen to be okay for some to say it and not others.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-25T09:50:53-06:00

ID

72100

Comment

Yeah that's true, black weren't called n*ggas, but n*ggers. I think though the whole n*iggas word is an aspect of Black Venacular English (BVE) , African American Venacular English (AAVE) , commonly called ebonics. I once did a paper on ebonics and I learned alot on african american language. AAVE is a form of Southern American English dialect of the American English language which is thought to have it's roots in the trans-Atlantic slave trade, is thought to be similar to Creole dialects, and is also thought to be a result of socieoeconomics and cultural differences between blacks and whites. The main thing I learned about the whole Ebonics debate was the certain differences found in linguistics such as phonologial, negation, and lexical features and things like that. I can't get too deep because I can't recall some of the info I learned. For example, phonologically, in BVE (I don't too much care for the term ebonics) there is a reduction of certain dipthongs forms. for example, the word 'boy' may be pronounced 'boh' because often times the pronunciation of fricatives changes on position in a word. The [ai] changes to [a]. Anoter example, then I'll get to my point: because BVE is both rhotic and non-rhotic (meaning the speakers pronounce the written r in all positions, whereas non-rhotc speakers pronounce it only if followed by a vowel), the r is usually dropped. Also the dropping of ng is also a common difference. These are jsut two aspects of differences in linguistics and I mention this because I think that the N word is a culmination of lingistucs as well as simply taken by some blacks trying to make a positive out of a negative. And hence, the word N*gger became N*gga. I am in no way saying I am right, but in my opinoin I think this is somewhat what happened during the evolution of the word N*gga. By discussing these things, all aspects of the issue, it does give people a better sense to question what it is that they say and why.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-25T10:34:31-06:00

ID

72101

Comment

I was at the Two Rivers Gala and helped with the event just as in the past. I didn't hear MS. Dupree but did hear Eddie Levert of the Ojay's used the word. I had white guests at my table and was offended that he used the word so cavalierly and needlessly like some people wouldn't be offended. My guest didn't seem to be offended though. I probably would have walked out on Ms. Dupree, too, and I'm black and a graduate of Tougaloo College. On one hand, we talk about whites not being sensitive to our history and personal sensitivities. Yet, too often we don't give a damn about their history and sensitivities. The history and pain of this word, to some, is too horrible to be used in any fashion. Good luck to those who wish to spend their time changing the meaning and damage of this word. In my view they will surely fail. I don't like the word. I have seen many people including the brillant Micheal Eric Dyson try to weaken and change the meaning of the word. In my view, all is a failed effort and waste of time. I think Tougaloo should make a statement of some sort for the sake of explaining its personal distaste or view of the word. This can be done without choosing either side.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-25T11:19:35-06:00

ID

72102

Comment

Ray, thanks for weighing in on this. It makes a difference when you have people that were actually there and saw the context rather those who are just reading this and may not get the full impact. I am with you in that if I had invited white friends of mine to the gala that I would have been offended for them. I just want to make sure my intention in writing all of this is clear: I am not thinking that this discussion will end the use of the "N" word. My whole point was getting to the root as to why it was used, just like other words. That's it. This is not the only word I have a problem with, however, it has become such a part of the conversation of young people that it needs to have some discussion. My 12 year old cousin who uses it was asked if he knew where the word came from. He said no he just said it because others said it. I asked him if other words could be used in its place. (similar to Blaque Butterfly's comment on "what's up brother") He said, "Yeah, I guess I could." That's all I want. Give options and let those who it affects make up their minds from there.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-25T11:41:12-06:00

ID

72103

Comment

I understand CA. I have used it many times when talking to my best friends. I think I started using it as a result of listening to Richard Pryor. I wouldn't ever ask you young folks to not have a discussion on it. I believe the discussions, conferences or whatever on the word is a good thing. I would much rather that a youngster understand the history of it before choosing to use it. I must admit I'm not as uncomfortable hearing it in an all black audience. Here I think it's less offensive to most. I could be wrong on this. One of my best friends (a black person) always got offended when I used it to him or anyone else. I have met other blacks who abhor the use of the word period. Not to mention the many white folks I know who have made a very conscious effort to flee from the use of the word for very good reasons. These episodes have convinced me not to use or condone the use of the word.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-25T11:53:59-06:00

ID

72104

Comment

It doesn't matter how you try to dress that N word up it is the most vile word in the English language. Young people need to talk to some of the senior citizens and get a full meaning of the word. People have used various versions for years but it all means the same. Look at some of the old movies and listen how many pronounce the word differently and tell me it is not the same. Wise up my people we have more improtant things to do than argue over the N word. Just put it out of your vocabulary and see if you miss it. Take it from me you want.

Author

jada

Date

2006-04-25T12:16:07-06:00

ID

72105

Comment

Just put it out of your vocabulary and see if you miss it. either that or go live in a bunker so you can't hear anybody say it ever again.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-25T13:18:36-06:00

ID

72106

Comment

Thanks CA or would u rather be referred to as Cyrus? At any rate, I think we agree on some areas of the subject. I think the discussion at the Free2Flow Summit has brought forth many views on this controversial subject. I have learned a lot from this blog. We still have a lot of work to do so I'll say "Mission almost Accomplished". I look forward to reading other thoughts on this subject.

Author

blaque butterfly

Date

2006-04-25T13:30:11-06:00

ID

72107

Comment

Thanks CA or would u rather be referred to as Cyrus? At any rate, I think we agree on some areas of the subject. I think the discussion at the Free2Flow Summit has brought forth many views on this controversial subject. I have learned a lot from this blog. We still have a lot of work to do so I'll say "Mission almost Accomplished". I look forward to reading other thoughts on this subject.

Author

blaque butterfly

Date

2006-04-25T13:30:55-06:00

ID

72108

Comment

Blaque Butterfly, I don't even think Cyrus knows how to say N!gga or N!gger, so it's definitely C. A. Webb in this discussion (smile). I think it is fair to say that the ones commenting here are probably not the ones the summit was even directed towards, though I think it is healthy and productive to know where everyone stands on the issue. The next Free2Flow Summit is set for Saturday, September 16, 2006. Will keep everyone informed. (Oh yeah, as of 1:41p.m. I haven't received the statement I was told yesterday would be given to me today from Tougaloo College. Will let you know when I get it, and will make it available to those who want to read it.)

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-25T13:41:58-06:00

ID

72109

Comment

C.A. Webb writes: Blacks were Negros that were called N_____s to degrade and humilate them. I once somehow ended up at a table where some very literary, but much older (as in retiree-age), friends were discussing the word "nekkid." Someone asked what the difference between "nekkid" and "naked" was. The response: "Naked is when you don't have any clothes on. Nekkid is when you don't have any clothes on and you're up to something!" "Nekkid" originated, of course, with rural folk who couldn't quite pronounce "naked." I reckon they're by and large the same rural folk who couldn't quite pronounce "Negro," and that the negative connotations came along later. Just a guess. A historian's guess, but a guess. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-25T14:15:48-06:00

ID

72110

Comment

Ferris State University's Museum of Racist Memorabilia has a really good page (warning: FULL of racial epithets and offensive caricatures, for obvious reason) on the history of the N-word which seems to back up my guess vis-a-vis the etymology of the term, but it makes an interesting argument about contemporary usage of the word that I completely disagree with that I still think might be worth looking at. The paragraph in question (I've _'d out the relevant epithets):

One of the most interesting and perplexing phenomena in American speech is the use of n_____ by African Americans. When used by blacks, n_____ refers to the following: all blacks ("A n_____ can't even get a break."); black men ("Sisters want n_____s to work all day long."); blacks who behave in a stereotypical, and sometimes mythical, manner ("He's a lazy, good-for-nothing n_____."); things ("This piece-of-shit car is such a n_____."); foes ("I'm sick and tired of those n_____s bothering me!"); and friends ("Me and my n_____s are tight."). This final usage, as a term of endearment, is especially problematic. "Zup N_____," has become an almost universal greeting among young urban blacks. When pressed, blacks who use nigger or its variants claim the following: it has to be understood contextually; continual use of the word by blacks will make it less offensive; it is not really the same word because whites are saying n_____ (and n_____s) but blacks are saying n___ah (and n___az); and, it is just a word and blacks should not be prisoners of the past or the ugly words which originated in the past. These arguments are not convincing. Brother (Brotha) and Sister (Sistha or Sista) are terms of endearment. N_____ was and remains a term of derision. Moreover, the false dichotomy between blacks or African Americans (respectable and middle-class) and n_____s (disrespectable and lower class) should be opposed. No blacks are n_____s, irrespective of behavior, income, ambition, clothing, ability, morals, or skin color. Finally, if continued use of the word lessened its sting then n_____ would by now have no sting. Blacks, beginning in slavery, have internalized the negative images that white society cultivated and propagated about black skin and black people. This is reflected in periods of self- and same-race loathing. The use of the word n_____ by blacks reflects this loathing, even when the user is unaware of the psychological forces at play. N_____ is the ultimate expression of white racism and white superiority, irrespective of the way it is pronounced. It is a linguistic corruption, a corruption of civility. N_____ is the most infamous word in American culture. Some words carry more weight than others. At the risk of hyperbole, is genocide just another word? Pedophilia? Obviously, no: neither is n_____.

Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-25T14:27:30-06:00

ID

72111

Comment

Well, that got scrambled. Just as well anyway; the whole page is worth skimming, IMHO. Fascinating stuff that I never knew about how the word has been used, even if after reading a few pages of it I feel like I need a shower. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-04-25T14:28:58-06:00

ID

72112

Comment

Tom, nekkid is still the word used for naked in my neighborhood. I used the word naked one time around some family and friends and nobdoy knew what the hell I was talking about. I quickly went back to nekkid to keep them from thinking I was becoming uppity. smile. One of my friends uded to joke about congressman Stennis quite a bit. According to my friend Stennis said "I just can't say Negro. Everytime I try to say it N_____ comes out." He used to crack ups up with this joke.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-25T15:36:07-06:00

ID

72113

Comment

How about those new spelling of words I used.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-25T15:38:23-06:00

ID

72114

Comment

The term "Ebonics" itself is an insult to Black people. You can't speak the King's english well enough forwhite people to understand so we'll label your speech as "Ebonics". and what's more insulting is a Black woman created this waste of terminology if I'm not mistaken.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-25T16:16:51-06:00

ID

72115

Comment

I don't blame my old friends and relatives for not learning the king's english. They didn't have a real good chance for an education. I'm proud of being multi-language. You haven't heard anything funny until you have heard some country white boys and men messing up the king's language far greater than any blacks folks have. We don't call that ebonics yet.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-25T16:40:05-06:00

ID

72116

Comment

Ray I heard Stennis when he said that. It is not a joke. I wish I could remember exactly when so I could share it with U

Author

jada

Date

2006-04-25T16:46:35-06:00

ID

72117

Comment

Jada, are you serious?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-25T17:02:08-06:00

ID

72118

Comment

THIS IS THE STATEMENT THAT WAS SENT TO ME FOR MY NEXT ARTICLE BY EDWINA HAMBY, THE VICE PRESIDENT FOR INSTITUTIONAL ADVANCEMENT: "Ms. Dupre did not speak for Tougaloo College at the Two Rivers Gala. She was a paid performer. However, this episode shows that we must investigate the content of our comedic performers' acts prior to booking them. "The founders of the Two Rivers Gala, who are Tougaloo alumni, envisioned a premier black-tie scholarship fundraiser, which would draw persons from all races and ethnicities to come together, enjoy great music and good food, and just have a good time. We make every effort to carry out their vision and you may be assured that offending any of our guests is just not on our agenda. "Since its founding in 1869, Tougaloo College has embraced diversity and worked assiduously to promote a just and humane society. This institution was built on the fundamental principles of equality, freedom, justice and America’s promise. Tougaloo College has always fulfilled its commitment to the ideals of education and the accompanying measure of social responsibility. We do not take this responsibility lightly. "We sincerely regret that this situation occurred and are optimistic that it will not change the perception of Tougaloo College in the greater community. "

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-04-25T19:17:04-06:00

ID

72119

Comment

No Ray, I am not kidding. this is who we had speaking for " us" as our representative. One of the reasons I hate the N word. Our young people need to do some research the maybe they would understand no matter how you want to pronounce the N word it is still a vile word. A Senator who can't pronounce Negro. He claimed it was because of the way his teeth were structured. I will consult with some of my old friends and see if I can get you the precise time and occation.

Author

jada

Date

2006-04-26T07:31:48-06:00

ID

72120

Comment

Thanks Jada and CA. Most of my teachers at Tougaloo were liberal white folks. It was always funny when outside whites would accuse us (Tougaloo students) of having militant and hateful black folks teaching us at Tougaloo to be rebels and antagonist to the system. I was always tempted to say that "good white folks told me to do this". We did, however, have some black professors, and nearly all were just like the white ones. I like Tougaloo's response. We never cares about anyone's race. You were either good or bad in our view.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T08:53:40-06:00

ID

72121

Comment

I think it is fair to say that the ones commenting here are probably not the ones the summit was even directed towards, Since it appeared to be a total bourgeoise event I can completely agree with this statement. hopefully the next outing will be "Free4All2flow" Furthermore, why are Black people always having to apologize for things we say and do but white society gets to parlay into innocence? If anything, those who chose to vote that racist flag to continue to wave over the heads of ALL Mississippians should be the main ones coming forth with and apology and corrective behavior, not a comedian whose JOB is to make us laugh at life and it's hurdles. Let's be real here. Tougaloo College has nothing to be ashamed of whatsoever and whoever wrote that sorry excuse for a "clean up" should be ashamed of themselves. They knew damn well who Ms.Dupre was or they wouldn't have booked her. all this cornball politics is what's killing race relations in Missisippi and America. Way too many cowards in the high annals of Black leadership. so quick to apologize and bootlick for a piece of the "American Dream" while their dignity and integrity takes another gun shot to the gut. What young kid today is gonna look up to a coward? none that I know of. And now I truly see why these kids don't respect black(or white) authority anymore and praise the thugs in the streets. Because at the very least THEY have a backbone. to jan2006- I noticed you found it so convenient to change up the word "Ebonics" to BVE/AAVE but have such a struggle with giving the word "N.igga" a new meaning or definition. Why is that? What if the table was turned and it was a caucasion comedian entertainer that was on stage and made the same joke at Tougaloo College? that's not a correct "table turn", sorry. the correct "turn" would be if a White comedian came in cracking jokes on his own white people wth jokes about "whitey" or "honky tonk" etc...in that instance I would've laughed right along with him. kinda like Jeff Foxworthy who always talks about "You might be a redneck if...". and by golly he's performed in Jackson before! hot dangitt I mished it!!. And if you want to go deeper still, any so called Christians reading this need to know that the cross itself was a pagan symbol used for executions by the Greek King of Tarsus but Jesus "flipped" the meaning behind that and made it a holy symbol but nobody has complained about that YET. hmmmmm.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T08:59:53-06:00

ID

72122

Comment

No one with a straight face can accuse Tougaloo College of being acoward. Our history of fighting racism and standing up to bigots is without peers. We're consistent in our views. Had we known Ms. Dupree would say what she did, her ass wouldn't have done it under the umbrella of Tougaloo. Jackson State would have probably asked for her speech before the show or not invited her. It's pure nonsense to promote and condone a word so divisive and that only a few aimless fools have use for anyway. JSU, please enlighten us of any good that word has done or is capable of doing?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T09:15:26-06:00

ID

72123

Comment

JSU, I'm with you on that flag point and the point of not needing white folks' approval or validation. Tougaloo is not denouncing the word for the sake of soothing the feelings of white folks. I bet this had very little to do with why the letter was written. Tougaloo couldn't be what it has become without the help it got from a myriad of people. After all, we don't get any funds from the State of Mississippi. I'm as offended by the N word as any white person can ever be. We shouldn't hold on to this gutter word just because some young folks like it. Most of those same young folks couldn't even eat dinner this evening unless some older person who hates the word feeds them.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T09:30:10-06:00

ID

72124

Comment

I meant in Mississippi Tougaloo is w/o equal collegiate peers for standing up to the race problem.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T09:33:35-06:00

ID

72125

Comment

Ray, please. spare me "had we known..." haha..now that's comedy. In that case you all should've never booked a comedian. Tavis Smiley or Zig Zigler would've been a better pick for a Black tie Gala anyway. Ms Dupre is known to be funny and controversial. Her and fellow comedian and close friend J Anthohny Brown are "country" to the core and they LOVE IT. they make no qualms about being black and addressing the ups AND downs of black life in America and they are definitely not spineless enough to ignore that FACT that the word "N.igga" is part of America's history, not just black history. they just choose to pour comedy over EVERYBODY'S pain because they know and understand that there are some things that will NEVER change in America but that's not going to stop them from living their lives. Don't get me wrong, I don't knock yours and others optimistic approach toward bannishing the word but IMO it's a trivial pursuit. good luck.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T10:08:24-06:00

ID

72126

Comment

JSU, you should spare me. I have seen Ms. Dupre and J. Anthong Brown do shows without using the N word. I have seen Ms. Dupre do shows with very little cursing, too. I'm not blind or deaf. If you want to be called a Nigga or Nigger and have no problems with EVERYONE else calling you that then that's fine with me. However, I know you are no more that than a thug which you are also called routinely and unjustifiably. The word does have history just as the abuse of black folks throughout the world does. I don't like or condone that either. The word has a bad history and you can't fix it no matter how much time you waste on it. You and your cohorts are the ones playing trivial pursuit. Not all black folks are alike as you know. I would aver that most of us hate the N word. The condoners or proponents of that word, by and large, are younsters who don't know shit from Shinola (however, you spell the word and whatever it is). But I still love you. You're one of my favorite commenters.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T10:57:44-06:00

ID

72127

Comment

Wow, did I miss a lot! Awesome comments. Tom and Ray, thanks for making me laugh this morning.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-26T11:41:17-06:00

ID

72128

Comment

I have to add, we're not condemning Ms. Dupre or Eddie Levert, Sr. for being the great entertainers they are. We nearly unanimously love them both. We don't condone the use of the word and wouldn't use it before an all white or all black audience. We wouldn't use it period at a Tougaloo function. I haven't lost any love for either performers but would ask both not to use the word at any function I hired them for.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T12:14:56-06:00

ID

72129

Comment

I'll preface my response with the comment: "People hate what they don't understand." "The word has a bad history and you can't fix it no matter how much time you waste on it." That's exactly why I'm not trying to fix it. I could care less about the word. seems to me like the same ones campaigning to have people not say and are the same ones trying to somehow "fix it".....and again I say...good luck. "Not all black folks are alike as you know." And that's the beauty of what makes it ok for an INDIVIDUAL such as Ms.Dupre to say "N.igga" in her show at what she THOUGHT was a room of her peers who could relate and not worry about sensitive people trying to slap a scarlet letter on her back....beautiful. I applaud her strength and courage..Bravo! I wouldn't ask her to change a thing and would book her again. "I would aver that most of us hate the N word." In here, yes. In other circles I frequent, not in the least. It's not even an issue to most people I run into or know personally. They are more concerned with how to get ahead in life, period. and trust me, pining over a slang term is the least of their care abouts. "The condoners or proponents of that word, by and large, are younsters who don't know s*** from Shinola (however, you spell the word and whatever it is). " by in large? oh I doubt that. You give the youth way more credit than you give the older people who are the main ones keeping the word alive. kids learn from the elders not the other way around. And I'm willing to bet your favorite actor or musician or even best friend uses the word daily but will you stop supporting their movies or albums or friendship because of it? probably not. so again. trivial pursuit.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T12:27:30-06:00

ID

72130

Comment

JSU I agree with you on the fact that you think that the term Ebonics is an insult to Black people. I wasn't finding it conveniant to use the term ebonics: as I previously wrote: "I don't too much care for the term ebonics." But in 'keeping it real' there are children in poor environments that speak a little differently to the point where teachers, from a different environment may have a problem teaching them. (If you need an example of this look up the Standard English Proefficiency Program implemented by the Oakland School Board.) And furthermore, I am not struggling to to give The N word a new meaning or definition. As I wrote I use the word, not to say that makes it right or wrong, but I use it; I use it because I am comfortable with it and I don't see it as a threat to me or those who I use the term with. I feel like it can be a negative turned positive, which is why I use it; the same way in which people say, what's up bro or what's up my sister, I may instead say, what's up my n_gga or something to that affect because it is an endearment TO ME, and TO ME only. I am aware that many others may not feel the same, but I know those around me who do and those are the ones I use the word with. Like I wrote I try not to offend others, because I don't want others to offend me. And maybe my opinion and usage of the N word will change, who knows, but as of right now, the word N*gga does not bother me at all, but the word N*gger does. I was simply giving MY OPINION on why I think the word has become what it is and how: period. As far as the 'table turn', maybe I didn't word that properly but my point is this: If a white person was up on the stage and did the same thing as Ms. Dupre, blacks folks would be pissed. It wouldn't have been 'funny,' People would have been insulted, and probably would have demanded an apology. And in saying that I'm am trying to evoke the the thoughts and opinoins of others as to why it is okay for only blacks to say it and not whites? (someone made this comment early, but I can't remember who and further more I'm a little to lazy right now to go back and look for the name) If indeed it was a white person making the joke with a black crowd, an apology would be demanded, so my point is why not give an apology to those few who were offended. I think people should respect the feelings and opinions of others, even when they don't agree with them. It's just apart of being a respectable human being. And as far as Jesus flipping the meaning of the cross, in a sense that is the same way I feel about the N word. Why can't it be a negative turned positive? But anyway, on the other hand, I am glad that TC did issue some sort of statement. That shows that they have respect for other individuals and their feelings and opinions. I graduated from Tougaloo College also, and I love my Alma Mater but I highly doubt that they would have still booked or not asked Ms. Dupre not to use the N word had they known she was going to use it.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-26T12:32:11-06:00

ID

72131

Comment

We don't condone the use of the word and wouldn't use it before an all white or all black audience. Why even have it as topic at a conference then? Why even continue THIS conversation? Why? because nobody cares. Now that I've answered my own question, I will excuse myself from this 'spinning of the wheels". ta' ta' ladies and gentlemen

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T12:38:33-06:00

ID

72132

Comment

I can't leave...arrrrrgh...this time for sure though. "But in 'keeping it real' there are children in poor environments that speak a little differently to the point where teachers, from a different environment may have a problem teaching them. (If you need an example of this look up the Standard English Proefficiency Program implemented by the Oakland School Board.)" They didn't have a problem teaching those kids, they more than likely didn't want to teach them because they were poor black kids that needed a little bit more help when it came to learning. Most teachers across the board are disgruntled for lack of extra pay anyway, so I would assume they were looking for a "way out" of teaching those slow-learning poor black kids and jumped at the chance to remedy their lack of love for teaching for that Ebonics foolishness. And if any of you want to just play around with the english language at the expense of Black folks lack of "proper english, go here http://www.joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp and act a fool if you want. I'm sure the creator of the website thanks you for mocking blacks "lingo" at all cost. " If a white person was up on the stage and did the same thing as Ms. Dupre, blacks folks would be pissed. It wouldn't have been 'funny,' " I disagree. if it was true, then it would've been funny to me. Carlos Mencia, Paul Mooney, both crack on other races all the time and it's funny...especially when it's true. Those uptight Tougalooians and their sponsors need to get out more.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T12:56:35-06:00

ID

72133

Comment

I knew you would come back, JSU, you just can't stay away can you? (smile) "They didn't have a problem teaching those kids, they more than likely didn't want to..." I think this may be true for some, but not for all. There were some teachers who lacked understanding of the patterns of language that some of the African American School children used. And in order to create a program that facilitated the teaching of Standard English: language, culture, and literacy must ALL be taken into consideration. The SEP program , which is still implemented today, assists children in learning Standard English by ENCOURAGING them to compare the way they speak with what they need to learn in school. From my understanding of the program they [teachers] are in no way making/teaching the children feel bad about the way they currently speak. The point is to be successful in teaching all students the material that needs to be learned, and if a different approach has to be taken, then so be it, as long as it does not disrepect the childs mentality of their own culture, then it is suitable. Furthermore I am not mocking the Black Venacular English, h*ll, I use it everyday, even though I have a college degree and high school diploma. I'm saying the patterns of language that some, not all, black people display need to be taken into account when dealing with diction and syntax. "I disagree. if it was true, then it would've been funny to me." Exactly, my point, TO YOU. Not everybody, I respect your opinion and your thoughts on this subject. But you would not the only person in the audience is my point. "Those uptight Tougalooians and their sponsors need to get out more." C'mon now, its about respecting others feelings and opinions. If they had known that the N word would have been in the mix of the 'entertainment' they probably would not have paid their $100 t o go to the gala.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-26T13:16:15-06:00

ID

72134

Comment

I understand that attendees were offended by the performer's use of the n-word. I am partial on the reasoning for T.C. to provide an apology for a performance by another only because of the exiling effect it can have on the performer. Then again, someone has to provide apology. On to the discussion of the word, if this is what this can be... It's very disappointing that we can/will be divided on the use of the word in any context. Historically, based on whichever language usage, blacks were referred to as nigg*rs or negroes. At some point in history, humanitarians black and otherwise chose to downplay the nigg*r reference. This probably triggered blacks and others to increase and/or decrease their respective use of the word. As ugly as the word is (or can be) and with danger of being disrespectful to those who fought against the use of the word, I have come to personally accept it as such--a word. Slang or otherwise, it is a word that was incorporated in vocabularies to refer to black people. As ignorant and naive as I may sound (so please accept my apologies for your offense if any), I would not know of any other group of people who would fit this reference. To fight the argument of whether "n*gger" should be taken out of everyone's vocabulary is worthy, but fighting/debating must respect the opinions of all--good or bad. I fully respect the motives of those who wish to effect change first in the black communities so that the change can emanate out. I understand the importance of taking accountability for actions; especially avoiding casual use of potentially harmful words, actions or attitudes. It seems to be that the taboo nature of the n-word has taught some to embrace it. Personally speaking, if that is what they called my ancestors coming off the ships or if that is what they called those in my family who started schools/jobs against the wills of others, if that is what they think of me even though their attitudes don't matter, I don't mind being referred to that way. If all else doesn't apply, that's how I refer to myself because in this u.s. english language that evolved, that's what I am. Their truly is a difference in perception with words. I'll look at a white person with equal curiosity (okay, this may be a stretch) if he referred to me as "bro." Should I tell him I'm not his brother? I'm past my initial reactions to that scenario but it took some thought on how I wanted to deal with that. I do not think that it is good to teach our kids to be offended at everything that is dished out. Sure, parent your households and avoid the use of certain words, but beware of avoiding the reality that they may hear certain things.

Author

lilsoulja

Date

2006-04-26T13:20:10-06:00

ID

72135

Comment

"I do not think that it is good to teach our kids to be offended at everything that is dished out. Sure, parent your households and avoid the use of certain words, but beware of avoiding the reality that they may hear certain things." Well said, lilsoulja. The world is bigger than you and me, and is too big to avoid the many harsh realities that life throws our way.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-26T13:30:03-06:00

ID

72136

Comment

Don't run, JSU. We need you. From your report or account, we obviously live in totally different worlds. I thought I was a very regular brother. Maybe I'm wrong. None of my college buddies, who are still my best friends, refer to one another as niggas. Everyone of us would be offended. Some more than others I admit. I doubt I could stomach for long a bunch of adults or old Negroes/Blacks/African Americans calling themselves Niggas. This would probably convince me they are, whatever a Nigger or Nigga is. I wish those who wants to be called this word well, and hope most of us will soon join in soon. I might eventually join in too. But I doubt I could join in without prefacing mines with the word STUPID or DUMB for sake of adding greater accuracy and context. Smile. Are we so shallow we can't come up with a more aceeptable and pleasing word. The only table that is being turned is our sanity, morality and good judgment. What is there to understand about the word Nigga or Nigger? If you are truly trying to change the meaning or turn the table on the word why change the spelling? Why confuse us. Why not just call yourself Nigger if you think you're a Nigga. They sound alike. What percentage of these adults you're talking about aren't hitting the chronic on a regular basis? None I imagine. Be honest with me. If Niggas ain't nothing but a word, I dare you to walk up to your white boss if you have one and say "what's up my nigga." Be sure to spell it for context. I would even dare you to do the same to your black boss if you have one. I don't have any problems whatsoever with comedians talking about race and ethnicity, especially the truth. What truth is there in the word Nigger or Nigga. Where are the Niggers or Niggas at? Show me one and I'll be more understanding. Much love, JSU. I'm out too. But I'll be back to see your response.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T13:59:09-06:00

ID

72137

Comment

I was away from my computer clearly too long today b4 posting. JSU--I guess the reason for having the n-word as a topic where music is concerned stems from the fact that the use of the word increased with the spread of the music. I think that all of the taboo shyt [older probably] people didn't want to hear became thrown in the mix that much more when the whole EXPLICIT labels started dropping. Unfortunately most humans are hardheaded when it comes to telling us what to do and, hence, the spread of cuss words, sexual conversation, and our beloved n-word. Spread so much where there's probably an involuntary inclusion of the word in conversation (or lyrics) than necessary. As stated, I realize that some grew up with the knowledge that the word is offensive. Hell, I had to scrape the roof of my toy General Lee (automobile used in the Dukes of Hazzard) and taught to abhor the confederate flag consequently. My questions are when did the n-word and the confederate flag become offensive? In agreement with JSU (although I hate to write off topics of discussion because there is always something for me to learn--well, highly likely), we should all realize that this topic will probably remain divided. Those who retain the word in their vocabulary (myself included) probably wonder why folk are so worked up over their use of the word, instead of accept the inclusion of the newest (which is by now, very old) version in their understandings. Ray--no disrespect to you, but your reference to the kids who do not know shyt from Shinola seems to reflect the attitude of a generation that would like to see better for the kids but not impart the vision. Of course, you could have just been a lil hot when you typed that also... Just as I spoke of earlier with the confederate flag issue with my mom (my mom grew up in Wilkinson/Adams county), there's only so much information passed to kids. I didn't learn until later in life that the word as we know it was simply an english spin-off of an ACTUAL word. I never realized until later in life that the confederate flag does NOT stand for the kkk, although they may use it. Kids will be adults and they need to learn the truths in life. When they do find out later, they will call the bullshyt and they will seek to identify the reality that life is.

Author

lilsoulja

Date

2006-04-26T14:01:33-06:00

ID

72138

Comment

Ray--you point out something that I figure we youngsters neglect to realize. Most who found the word offensive probably (and I'm searching for more enlightenment) took the reference to mean stupid or dumb. I laugh at your insinuation (it WAS funny) that the only blacks that JSU knows who refer to each other as n*ggas are those who smoke chronic. This is not a thug issue, although the thugs probably give less of a damn what others think of what they say or do. Why did Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence in the movie Life refer to each other and the other blacks as "nigg*rs"? It was a part of their speech by then. Why shouldn't it continue or evolve. To answer the question of referring to your boss....c'mon now. Be for real. In this climate where white folk are threatened from using the word and blacks would threaten those from using the word, it would be disrespectful to bring it to them--white or black. Through controversy, there could never be full acceptance of any form of the word.

Author

lilsoulja

Date

2006-04-26T14:19:49-06:00

ID

72139

Comment

I hear you lilsoulja. You never have to apologize to me. I respect the cerebration, intellect and brillance of all people, including the young. I can take a hit from anyone. What kind of person would I be if I could dish it out but can not take it when it comes back my way? I'm just having a discussion and seeking enlightenment. I'm a man who will readily say I don't know it all. I can be wrong. I can accept my faults and errors easily and w/o any hard feelings. I know who and what I am. There are many young folks who don't know jacks about life (including shit from Shinola) but think they do. I see them in jail all the time. They wouldn't have listened to me or any adult before jail. I have dedicated my life to trying to help the fools. And I'm not going to hesitate to talk about them.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T14:20:36-06:00

ID

72140

Comment

lilsoulja, I try to argue without being too offensive or mean toward anyone. I like to throw in humor to lighten up things. Help me out. JSU never answered my question. What good is there in either word, nigga or nigger? Why is it necessary. Some of you act like the word is indispensable in some way.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T14:25:44-06:00

ID

72141

Comment

I can't speak for JSU, Ray Carter, but I would like to try and answer your question from the standpoint of someone who uses the term. Forgive me if I am redundant in anything that I am about to write. "What good is there in either word, n**** or n*****? Why is it necessary. Some of you act like the word is indispensable in some way." I think that we as a younger generation, (I still consider myself young: smile) use it as endearment though the word is very debateable. When people throw obstacles your way, especially in the form of labels (n*ggers), people tend to take the label and use it against them in a way. For example the word b*tch. I know many girls who would snap on any man for referring to them as a b*tich but continually use it themselves with their girlfirends. Why is it okay women to call each other B*tches and not okay for men to call them the same? I really don't know. But in my opinion it has something to do with taking things and turning them around in your favor so that the person who issued the label no longer has power over it. I know it's probably contradictory but in a sense that's may be what it does for some. It's weird because, we as a younger generation really have no clue as to the reality of the struggle that blacks have gone through. We have not picked cotton, we have not been refused a seat on the bus, we have not been told to drink from a specific water fountain and etc, I think that some people do feel the N word is vital, because maybe they feel if they had never embraced the N word in their own way, the usage of N*gger would somehow never truly been eliminated from regular use by whites. Not to say that it has, but it is evident that white people don't use N*gger as frequently and freely in public as they once did. I know I am not an expert on the subject and may on the opposite side of the right answer, but this is what I think. You ask a really good question, Ray Carter. And you are right, JSU, we do need you. It is refreshing to read so many different opinions and thoughts on the subject. And if we all can't agree, we can at least agree to disagree:)

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-26T15:06:03-06:00

ID

72142

Comment

um Ray....I'll respond now "What good is there in either word, n**** or n*****? Why is it necessary. Some of you act like the word is indispensable in some way." what good is there in any cuss word for that matter? cuss words, period, are meant to demean <--which answers your question but did you know that the word f*@k means "f.ornication u.der c.onsent of the k.ing" ??? , yes it's an old British word and I'm sure you use this word all the time in one way or another, Ray. should this word be banished too? take the red pill, Ray!

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T15:30:20-06:00

ID

72143

Comment

I grew up in a Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, Millie Jackson type of home were the word was used so much but it was mainly used to make us laugh out loud, literally. so the word is forever with me and my family bar none. end of story. I'll call you a n.igga right now if I want to...lol But I'll never forget, My mom was called a "n.igger" one day by a white man trying to get by her at the store, he said "move n.igger" and before sh!t could even warn shinola my dad hit him so hard in the face that his teeth shot out of his mouth like dice, literally. the man tried to press charges on my pappy but pappy wasn't scared to do no time behind that or pay a doctor bill which I later learned he had to pay a hefty doctor bill and give the guy a face to face "apology". I learned a valuable lesson from that day and it was this, no matter how right you think you are somebody is gonna try to make you out to be wrong. and this is why I say "N.igga/Neega/nagga/nicca/etc.." because I'm effectively takind the word away from my oppressor, LITERALLY and daring him to use it or take it back...but I can with it as I wish...that's power. Ms. Dupre got power. do you?

Author

JSU

Date

2006-04-26T15:46:20-06:00

ID

72144

Comment

Thanks fellows. I could go on but I won't. JSU, pills won't do any good. I will need some chronic to get on board with the use of the B and N words.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T15:47:23-06:00

ID

72145

Comment

"did you know that the word f*@k means "f.ornication u.der c.onsent of the k.ing" ??? " Sure didn't. that's intersesting.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-04-26T16:05:15-06:00

ID

72146

Comment

I see your point about fights. I had to learn too not to fight because a white person called me that word. The last white prson to say it was a teacher when I was in the 8th grade. My scholastic aptitude made him eat those very words. In my view I too took away the power of the word by realizing it wasn't worth fighting over. I had no idea a bunch of stupid blacks who called themselves ______ would come along later and call me more _______ than any white person ever dreamed of. I'm still trying to reconcile what to do to black folks who not only call themselves _______ but who call me a _____ too. Since I belive in cinsistency, I'm gonna have to whup a few black folks who consider themselves _____ into not calling me a ______, too. Then I will view the word as innocent and innocuous when used by black folks just as I mostly consider it innoculous when used by whites. Smile. I'm only kidding.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-26T16:15:26-06:00

ID

72147

Comment

Not sure of the necessity of the word--either word. Although not used by all, I came to view it as a word that other black americans recognized for themselves. I should include that some I followed around and/or perhaps emulated used the word fairly frequently. The fact that momz would knock the dice out of my mouth is part reason why I embraced it (although I'm happy to say that my grill is still here...have to respect her mind). Kids and our rebellious natures. I know that it eats up the intellectual or english scholar to observe the misuse/abuse of a word; that is, using it out of context. "If you're simply relating to your comrades or one you relate to, use a word that is less offensive." I would tend to think that the will of some to delete the word has led others to embrace it more. Humans and our rebellious natures. I know that in fairness to the white community it would be wrong to continue the use of words that they have been for the most part "stricken" from using. I see how it takes away from that push altogether. Personally I'm simply in the state of mind that I can refer to myself whichever way that I want as long as I retain my values as a man. I'll never satisfy this world nor my people, but my people is with whom I identify. Descendent of slaves, a n*gga I'll be. I retain the strength to overcome the trials of life, no matter how jacked up and unfair it may be at times. I can be a full man regardless of the percentage of a man that my country views me as. I don't refer to myself as a n*gga to say I'm foolish, dumb or otherwise. I refer to myself as a n*gga to say that I won't forget from whence I come and where I stand. I don't wish to emit gloom because life is beautiful. Don't know where this is going.

Author

lilsoulja

Date

2006-04-27T08:20:03-06:00

ID

72148

Comment

lilsoulja, would you be offended if I told you that I keep forgetting that you are male? Your user name reminds me of Sister Soulja, so that's why I keep thinking you're a woman. :-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-04-27T09:32:32-06:00

ID

72149

Comment

Good comment lisoulja. I still won't embrace the word.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-04-27T09:38:30-06:00

ID

72150

Comment

L.W.--No offense at all. Been that way since I adopted the 'handle' some years ago. lil~skinny; soulja~me (I've held strong to my N.O. roots since I left for college) Ray--no persuasion here. Thanks all the same.

Author

lilsoulja

Date

2006-04-27T13:59:29-06:00

ID

72151

Comment

i'm a person from the northern south as i like to call it and i read the comments posted here several of them.WAKE UP PEOPLE. the n word huh a year in a half ago or so in a small town called grant alabama near my home town which has been called little silicone valley a policemen was shot and killed by a young white man i employ an hispanic who i personally informed of the fact that blacks are not welcome in that town and yet he got stranded in the town along with a cousin and due to my information left his car and began to walk to his home the police offered he and his cousin a ride home he got in the car along with his cousin and as they were being taken to thier home he questioned the police saying i heard it was kind of rough around here for a person if they are not white the police replied no its okay as long as you are not black my friend asked why black the police replied we ran them off from here and dont want them around i dated a girl from that town in 1987 and this happened in 2003 right next door to the new high tech society we so call live in today the young lady i dated back in the day told me at that time that it was allright to come and see her at anytime other than the third thursday of the month which was cross burning night after which of course i had nothing else to do with her but from the time span i've mentioned unto now how much do you think has changed nothing thats how much so if all of this talk about the n word is soo! alarming and offensive to some of us who have forgotten ourselves come on down i'll take you on a tour of reality that not only deals with the word but the everyday lifestyle of having to live with this terrible word and its usage oh by the way you're wondering she's white i'm black and to this date nothing other than being jailed basically has happened to the young man who committed the crime yet they erected a memorial to the policemen we need to quit talking about our state as a people and start doing something about it .walking out on high dillar functions or fund raiser's is not the solution.

Author

maverick71

Date

2006-05-07T19:08:09-06:00

ID

72152

Comment

Maverick, thanks for reminding us all of how the struggle continues out of the spotlight. Some want to believe that those days are over, but we know better, right? ;-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-05-08T18:31:55-06:00