Ellington

This is the website of a woman in Colorado who was arrested for failing to show her driver's license to a security officer on a public bus. The case is interesting simply for the implications it has about the state of our "personal freedoms".

I admire the woman for standing up and saying "no". I wanted to post this to see how other people felt about being required to show your ID on a public bus for no apparent reason other than bowing to the authority of a man with a gun.

Showing ID, in this country, is covered under our right to privacy. While its never been something I've been majorly opposed to when I've been asked, I am understanding after reading this article why I should pay more attention to the prevalence with which it happens.

I just wanted to know your thoughts on the subject. I know that after 9-11 the places that asked for ID skyrocketed for a few months. The interesting part of this whole thing is that it has been proven that asking for ID doesn't improve security. Bad people get fake papers. Good people get their privacy invaded.

What does an ID, any ID, do for security?

The honest answer is 'not
much'. If anyting, relying on ID for security purposes actually makes
things worse. Showing ID only affects honest people. If you're
dishonest, you can obtain false documents or steal the identity of an
honest person.

If a 19 year-old college student can get a fake ID to drink, why
couldn't a bad person get one, too? And no matter how sophisticated the
security embedded into the ID, wouldn't a well-financed terrorist be
able to falsify that, too? The answer to both questions is obviously
'yes'.

Honest people, on the other hand, go to Pro-Life rallies. Honest
people attend gun shows. Honest people protest the President of the
United States. Honest people fly to political conventions.
Honest people also commute by public bus to work. What if those
with the power to put people on a 'no ride' list decided that they
didn't like the reason for which you wanted to travel? The honest
people wouldn't be going anywhere.

Bad people, besides using fake IDs and stolen identities, can also
make the system of checking IDs work in their favor. The Carnival Booth
effect, as described by researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, means that terrorists can probe an ID security system by
sending a number of people on innocent trips through the system and
noting who is flagged for extra searches and who isn't. They then send
only those who the system doesn't flag on terrorist missions.

Thoughts? Loud Guttural Noises?

Previous Comments

ID

103678

Comment

This completely creeps me out. Plus, we found a step-relative-by-marriage who has a homeland security ID (he's not in any way part of any homeland security project). He routinely speeds on the freeways, is routinely stopped for speeding, and is routinely let off without a ticket merely because he has that ID. Which scares the crap out of me, because it means the typical police officer believes that anyone with a homeland security ID is ABOVE THE LAW.

Author

kate

Date

2005-11-30T09:10:14-06:00

ID

103679

Comment

See, that almost gets me MORE than the story I posted. But, it does prove the point of the "Carnival Booth" theory they talk about.

Author

Lori G

Date

2005-11-30T09:22:14-06:00

ID

103680

Comment

Soon, RFID, tags will be placed in everyone. They are starting to do it to dogs already. The info will be beamed to a PDA held by JPD officers within a proximity and there will be no privacy. Security gaurds are just civilians who have taken a training course, at least privatized ones. Sorry security guards if you are reading. They do not have the authority to ask for ID's, what would they do with it anyways. I would respond the same way. If it were a police officer I would just suck it up and hand it to them so i could get to work. If your in a hurry getting arrested wouldn't help things.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2005-11-30T10:39:30-06:00

ID

103681

Comment

Soon, RFID, tags will be placed in everyone. They are starting to do it to dogs already. The info will be beamed to a PDA held by JPD officers within a proximity and there will ... The day that this happens is the day that I become uber religious, convince the right leaning population of the US that this is the "Mark of the Beast" and run for office on that platform.

Author

Lori G

Date

2005-11-30T11:43:15-06:00

ID

103682

Comment

I've had to wear an ID for the past three years or so, but not because of 9/11. My college requires that all faculty and students have their IDs out-- usually they're clipped on. attached to a lanyard, etc. I like it because I'm absolutely terrible with names. The ID wearing helps me remember.

Author

Ex

Date

2005-11-30T14:05:35-06:00

ID

103683

Comment

ID at work, I'm okay with. ID while I'm out on the streets, not so much a fan. As for the RFID tags - don't these people read wacky SciFi books, where everyone's linked electronically, and then very bad things happen? This kind of thing usually leads to the end of the human race, or the mutation of the human race or something.

Author

kate

Date

2005-11-30T14:36:51-06:00

ID

103684

Comment

Ali, you would win on that alone. and noone has read the sci-fi books. RFID and the sort has popped up in some of my graduate classes and the "unethical" people who would sell their grandmother for a dollar swear up and down that as soon as the price comes down on the tags they should use them for everything in all products. Walmart got caught hiding a few in some products and they are not as subtle about it as they were. They can track where you walk in the store and what other items you buy. I am not a conspiracy theorist, this is actually happening. You can look it up. Why not just stick something in my thumb and tie it to my bank account, sort of like a speedpass. People are worried about all this stuff but more than likely it is going to happen. New orleans just went with free city-wide wi-fi when the case load for identity theft goes through the roof don't be surprised if it only last a few months before it gets hacked or crashed. The machines are coming, but i'll be laughing with my tinfoil hat on in my crawlspace.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2005-11-30T15:37:39-06:00

ID

103685

Comment

I may be completely naive, but I just don't see the people in this country letting this happen. But, I've always been far too optimistic. ;)

Author

Lori G

Date

2005-11-30T20:19:48-06:00

ID

103686

Comment

When I edited The Future of the Internet for Greenhaven Press, one of the articles I found--I forget which--argued, convincingly, that technology will make privacy impossible, and that our goal will be to make sure that the authorities watching us don't have any privacy, either, so that we'll all be on an equal footing. And it isn't just IDs. Ever notice how small, and cheap, digital cameras are getting? The author in my anthology hypothesized that eventually they'll be available like happy face stickers, 100 to a roll for five bucks, and that even elementary school kids will be putting them all over the place for funsies. But that's nothing compared to what the CIA might be able to do with airborne webcams the size of large dust particles, which could be blown into air conditioning vents by the hundreds. And no end of stuff in between. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-12-01T01:33:46-06:00

ID

103687

Comment

BTW- The key to Superstar's scenario (and I've heard it brought up before) is convenience. It sounds horrible to have our every move tracked, but imagine walking into a store, picking up the items you want, and leaving. No checkout or anything of that nature. RFIDs and speedpasses would make that possible. And if anything of value gets stolen, sufficiently advanced GPS technology can guarantee there's nothing thieves can do to keep police from knowing exactly where it is. We might be conscientious objectors to this policy, but it'll be convenient, and most people will probably want it. My worry is not so much living in this Jetsons society with my naughty bits searchable on Wikipedia as it is the effect it will have on existing social stratification, where people with money will be like GODS with all of this new technology to play with, and folks without money will be like serfs. I am encouraged by the efforts that have been made to bridge the digital divide, putting computers in public libraries and offering citywide broadband and whatnot, but that divide will likely become larger and larger as technology advances. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-12-01T01:41:02-06:00

ID

103688

Comment

When/if it does, the public will then move to wondering about who has the info and what info it is. It is really just a cute little puppy that everyone likes but then when it gets big everybody runs. The convenience factor will be appealing to everyone like tom said, there are a few grocery stores in europe who are already set up like tom has said. All it takes is one person to do something with the information that they shouldn't and everything is compromised. In order to prevent this you have to micro manage every aspect of the data, most corporations are set up like this already where one person has privlidges to access certain data but not others. Its the ones who have all access and want to sell it that worry me. There aren't enough firewalls in the world to prevent an inside job. I realize the topic is getting off course a little so sorry for that ali, but this topic is fresh in my mind and just trying to get it out. What people don't know is that we are more like sci fi movies than we think, while at the same time we can't have one decent road anywhere, racist, unemployed and starving people everywhere, but at least we know what they are doing. ahhh capitalism can't be all bad.

Author

*SuperStar*

Date

2005-12-01T08:50:29-06:00

ID

103689

Comment

All this apocalyptic talk is giving me the urge to get a shovel and start digging, but I think I'll take my chances above ground for now. All I have to say is that if microscopic webcams are let loose in the atmosphere and I breathe in one of those suckers, I hope they send the footage to me. As much cash as I have have coughed up for my sinuses, I could use a little free healthcare!

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2005-12-10T22:32:47-06:00

ID

103690

Comment

LOL! I hadn't thought about that particular hazard before, but now that you mention it... "Angel Six, this is Red Dog Five. Are you getting this?" "This is Angel Six. Yeah. Looks like a cavern..." Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-12-10T22:42:27-06:00