Ellington

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll taken right after the town hall meeting-style debate found respondents giving a slight, statistically insignificant edge to Kerry over Bush: 47 percent of them went for Kerry and 45 percent for Bush.

The survey had a margin of error of plus-or-minus 4 percentage points, making the results a virtual draw.

It did suggest that Bush had a significantly better performance than in the first debate, which respondents gave to Kerry by a margin of 53 percent to 37 percent.

The poll is a reflection of immediate impressions of respondents who are registered voters who watched the debate.

FactCheck.org Reports:
Both candidates played loose with the facts at the second Presidential Debate in St. Louis Oct. 8. Bush claimed Kerry's health-care plan would lead to rationing and "ruin the quality of health care in America," a claim unsupported by neutral experts. Kerry claimed the Bush administration had forced the Army Chief of Staff to retire for pushing to send more troops to Iraq, but in fact he retired on schedule.

False and dubious statements include:
Bush's Timber-Growing Company
No Child Underfunded by $28 Billion?
Working Drug Discount Cards
and many more...

Previous Comments

ID

137196

Comment

More facts from CNN regarding the debate... -Claim: Bush said Kerry cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion in the 1990s. -Claim: Bush suggested Kerry would allow other countries to veto U.S. troop deployments. -Claim: Kerry said the United States has spent $200 billion on the Iraq war. -Claim: President Bush said Sen. John Kerry voted for higher taxes 98 times. -Claim: Bush said the National Journal ranked Kerry as "The Most Liberal Senator." -Claim: Bush said that 75 percent of known al Qaeda members have been brought to justice. -Claim: Kerry said that former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki was forced out for comments on Iraq troop levels. -Claim: Kerry said that Bush has presided over an economy which lost 1.6 million jobs and that he is the first president in 72 years to lose jobs. Click here to read the details of each claim.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-10-10T17:43:33-06:00

ID

137197

Comment

Thanks, Knol. That's a precise list. No doubt: media is better this election cycle at factchecking than I've ever seen them -- probably as a result of the blogosphere, which will do it for them. The word on Sunday a.m. talk was that the Republicans aren't doing so well with the flip-flop card, so now they're going to play the "liberal" card every chance they get. Personally, I think they're desperate. Take their labels away, and they got nothing. Certainly not a record to be proud of (unless you make over $200,000 a year and all you give a damn about is tax cuts). Otherwise, though. I can't for the life of me understand why Kerry/Edwards keep using that $200 billion number when the real figure is bad enough, and why not say "projected"? And the whole Bush timber denial is just priceless?!? I followed your site to a story on CNN right now about a quote that the Bushies are taking out of context and doing a whole ad around. This is simply a remarkable ignoring of context on this one. I swear, either the folks in power in the GOP are intellectual dumbasses, or they will stop at nothing to twist Kerry's words out of context, thus showing contempt for the American people's intelligence. Such reasoning wouldn't get them through the No Child Left Behind testing, should any of them still be in high school (or would have gone to public school in the first place). Truly, truly remarkable. Full piece: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/10/bush.kerry.terror/index.html

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-10-10T18:02:38-06:00

ID

137198

Comment

BTW, I understand that the Dred Scott stuttering (weird, huh?) is meant as conservative code for abortion rights. Here's a sample of that reasoning: http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0703/0703state.htm

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-10-10T18:04:42-06:00

ID

137199

Comment

By the way, the debate didn't seem much of a tie to me; I think Bush benefits mightily from the bigotry of low expectations he hates so much. It's almost as if folks think because he didn't walk off the stage, or hit Charlie Gibson, that he "tied" the debate and did much better. A lot of pundits aren't being so kind, though. Here's an analysis from the New York Times: The president managed not to scowl. But he let his feelings get the better of him, getting hot under the collar in a medium best served cold. From the outset, his clenched jaw twitched, and he blinked repeatedly, like a man whose contact lens hurt. And whenSenator John Kerry turned and confronted him face to face with the latest report on the absence of illicit weapons in Iraq, President Bush snickered derisively - the first sign that the president, though more combative than in the first debate, was not on his game. And a town-hall debate, which was expected to be a strong forum for Mr. Bush, turned into a voyeuristic reality show: would the president lose it like a contestant on "Survivor"? He came close a few times. When Mr. Kerry accused the president of going to war unilaterally, Mr. Bush could not suppress his anger. He jumped off his stool and interrupted the moderator, Charles Gibson of ABC, saying, "I've got to answer this." Mr. Gibson wanted to pursue the subject of whether deploying Reserves constituted a form of military draft, but Mr. Bush was adamant. "Let me just answer what he just said about going alone," he insisted. "You tell Tony Blair we're going alone! Tell Tony Blair we're going alone!" Mr. Bush tried to charm his audience, but there was little laughter when he tried a self-deprecating joke about his first debate, saying his opponent's answer almost made him want to "scowl." And he barely won a polite laugh when he looked startled when Mr. Kerry suggested that he owned a timber company. "I own a timber company?" Mr. Bush exclaimed. "News to me. Need some wood?"

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-10-10T19:53:10-06:00